a problem with the church today

acutelyaware · 09-14-2007, 04:35 AM

my question/ realization as of last wednesday has become this, how does a school that is dedicated to watching out and protecting their students from harm in various ways, use a sound solid basis to make such poor priorities over what is harmful, wrong, and actionable? (for a lack of a better term.) Who decided consuming alcohol, even within proper amounts, is more harmful that the one who restricts their very core needs for survival like food? -which if unaddressed can take over the mind and body permanantly. What caused them to decide to put more focus on curfew and dress code than severe dieting issues that have far more detrimental consequences than a "suggestive look." how do they justify banning all behaviors harmful to the body because it is wrong according to the Bible, and turn thier heads when a student conciously deprives himself of what is needed to survive. It is difficult to imagine that this might be true, but wouldn't depriving yourself of a need to the extent that you are knowingly harming your body be equivilantly as wrong as using substances that you know will harm your body? why is there so much one sidedness to not only this college, but to Christian values and priorities everywhere. do not get me wrong, i am not underming the risk of alcolhol and other substances as less consequential; once these things have taken control of the mind, i believe it had less to do with the individuals responsibility to reocver bc of the dependency and physical capability to realize the need for help. i am only passionate about impressing on others the seriousness of other issues that are messier and less cut and dry than alcoholism, drugs, or addictions where the individual is needing to abstain. to face the very thing you hate, three or more times a day, is a little backwards, and therefore becomes confusing and labeled as "weird" instead of wrong. both addicts-i guess I can call them both, reach a point where they cannot help themselves because they abused themsleve to the point of literally losing sense and decision making. but the choice was initially theirs, and that is what they are responsible for, and no matter if the choice was to take too many drinks or quit listening to your body's needs, they were wrong, and need to be treated the same.

**Brother of Yeshua** · 09-14-2007, 08:46 AM

Christianity has sold out the Message delivered by Yeshua and put their faith in doctrines and dogmas of men.

This isn't new. This has been happening since the 4th century when Rome bought out Christianity as it's national religion, and corrupted Yeshua's teachings in the name of subversive political propaganda.

Karl Marx said religion is the opiate of the masses, and he is right in the sense of government's long history of usurping religion to brainwash, regulate, and manipulate their constituents.

It's no different now. Pastors are in cahoots with government to help "subdue" the population in the event that martial law should be declared. Major religious leaders such as Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, and Ted Haggard have met regularly with political figureheads and in some cases, even pursued their own political ventures.

The church has sold out their True God for a new one, the US Government.

Static · 09-14-2007, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acutelyaware

my question/ realization as of last wednesday has become this, how does a school that is dedicated to watching out and protecting their students from harm in various ways, use a sound solid basis to make such poor priorities over what is harmful, wrong, and actionable? (for a lack of a better term.) Who decided consuming alcohol, even within proper amounts, is more harmful that the one who restricts their very core needs for survival like food? -which if unaddressed can take over the mind and body permanantly. What caused them to decide to put more focus on curfew and dress code than severe dieting issues that have far more detrimental consequences than a "suggestive look." how do they justify banning all behaviors harmful to the body because it is wrong according to the Bible, and turn thier heads when a student conciously deprives himself of what is needed to survive. It is difficult to imagine that this might be true, but wouldn't depriving yourself of a need to the extent that you are knowingly harming your body be equivilantly as wrong as using substances that you know will harm your body? why is there so much one sidedness to not only this college, but to Christian values and priorities everywhere. do not get me wrong, i am not underming the risk of alcolhol and other substances as less consequential; once these things have taken control of the mind, i believe it had less to do with the individuals responsibility to reocver bc of the dependency and physical capability to realize the need for help. i am only passionate about impressing on others the seriousness of other issues that are messier and less cut and dry than alcoholism, drugs, or addictions where the individual is needing to abstain. to face the very thing you hate, three or more times a day, is a little backwards, and therefore becomes confusing and labeled as "weird" instead of wrong. both addicts-i guess I can call them both, reach a point where they cannot help themselves because they abused themsleve to the point of literally losing sense and decision making. but the choice was initially theirs, and that is what they are responsible for, and no matter if the choice was to take too many drinks or quit listening to your body's needs, they were wrong, and need to be treated the same.

that's a really good perspective, I probably would have never thought about this. I agree, not doing the things your body needs is just as bad as abusing drugs and alcohol. The only difference I think would be that doing drugs and alcohol would speed up the process.

I'm curious though, what is it exactly that you have to do 3 times a day that you absolutely hate? eat?

WillyBubba · 09-15-2007, 10:03 AM

I dare say alcohol and curfew issues (vandalism and thievery, mostly, I imagine) are more rampant than eating disorders, and they also tend to effect more people in the way of drunk driving or other activities and damaged or stolen property. Generally there's also a lot of peer pressure for those activities, whereas I've never been pressured or goaded into starving myself. Certainly they're serious issues, probably all stemming from lack of self-value and therefore detrimental to their respect for others and themselves, but we tend to target whatever is the more widespread problem.

**Brother of Yeshua** · 09-15-2007, 01:19 PM

But it's the fact that they weigh "sin" as being greater or lesser.

This is done because they have allowed culture to influence religion instead of the other way round.

The core of the True Message of Yeshua talks about universal forgiveness. There is nothing that someone can do that can't be forgiven. Not to say that there should be no consequences, but if someone pays their debt to society, then why should we not forgive them?

And the other side of this is people LOVE to judge how other people live. If it's not harming any other person besides that individual, that is their choice to make, and you cannot judge them.

Also Jesus specifically says not to judge others multiple times in the gospels (canonical and non-canonical).

Instead they have bought into a culture where people are labelled, boxed in, and never to allow the lines to cross.

My mom is a pastor, and she told me one of her parishoner's was angry because some bikers came to church and their motorcycles were in the parking lot. They said "What do you plan on doing about this?" and my mom said "Welcoming them to church." and walked away.

It's the culture perpetuated by the US government that has infected the church. That was my point with my first post. I just re-read it and realized I didn't make it clear, so it probably just looked silly.

09-15-2007, 02:54 PM

Ok I'm actually glad that someone brought this up.

I agree that they way churches expect you not to drink, do drugs, be in by a certain time, and dress a certain way is rediculous. It is your body not theirs. You should have control over how you treat it and what you put on it. I think that churches and Christian schools have completely misinterpretated the message of the bible. It's like they takes parts of it that they want to teach and then distort it to fit their beliefes and forget the parts that they don't want to teach.

I also have to agree that they do worry too much about "abusive" or "addictive" things and not enough about how the people that they teach are doing.

Just another example of churches completely distorted the message of the bible. Ever since I started getting piercings and tattoos and dressing a certain way I have been stared at in church and shunned to the point where they have asked me to leave because "I didn't fit the way God wanted me to live" and it gave their church "a bad name". I have 21 piercings and 2 tattoos and dress in the "punk" clothes(I really hate lables but that is what I have been told I dress like). So I guess I'm not fit to be at a church.

**Ristaron** · 09-16-2007, 03:30 AM

I'm assuming you're referring to the Christian Church, which is plagued by the problem of bitterness over being ousted from the official political campaigns. They now run a fair bit of the show behind the curtain through funding and providing space for promotions rather than launching campaigns within the official political channels.
Religion and government, though supposed to be separate, are not. People base their votes on the religious associations of the candidate; religious groups petition the government to ban "sinful" things; and the worst part is that it's by no grace of God that Christianity is the number one religion in North America, but rather the political figures who impose it.

"One nation under God" was not the way the Pledge of Allegiance originally read.
Every president in the past century has referenced "God" in political speeches.
The government-controlled media portrays other religions as fanatical and extreme.
And says that the nation is "Christian" and that the founding fathers were "Christian" (THEY WERE FUCKING DEISTS!)

The problem with the Church is that it's corrupt and far too powerful, thus eliminating the part where people may be drawn to it for agreeing with it and replacing that with PUTTING IT IN THEIR FACE.

**Brother of Yeshua** · 09-16-2007, 03:54 PM

Before the thread gets hijacked from the OP, I think what Ritaron and I are trying to say is that the specific complaint you have are symptoms of the disease of corruption and hypocrisy. While I definitely agree about your statement, it's only looking at the surface imo.

To bring this back to the OP, this same idea is true for the addictive behaviors you speak of. You can be addicted to anything. Anything. Even emotions. You can be addicted to bias.

Whether it be the corrupted individuals in the upper echelons of church and government or whether it be the boozehound who hasn't been sober in almost a year, both actions are an outward sign of an inner sickness.

The biggest problem with the Christian church and many other fundamentalist religions is the lack of Love. The Christian writings themselves specifically state that God is Love, and anyone who does not Love does not know God.

The majority of people I know that call themselves Christian don't exactly embody the perspective of Love. I'm not saying people should be perfect, but most churches are nothing but clubs of convenience. There's no desire to change the world for the better. There's no desire to live in peace with one another. The same person who passes the peace to you sunday morning is flipping you off in the parking lot in the rush home to see the game.

There is no one individual's fault that this is happening. I attend a Christian church, and it is wonderful. The congregation is active, the pastor is one of the sweetest women I have ever met, and even though I don't agree with the theology being preached, the Message is undeniably one of Love.

This is what a church should be. A group of people drawn together in mutual support of themselves, each other, and the greater community (local and worldwide) in gifts of money and/or service. Welcoming all, loving all, rebuking none.

Sadly, most people would rather have a good image than actually help anyone.

**Ristaron** · 09-17-2007, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother of Yeshua

Before the thread gets hijacked from the OP, I think what Ritaron and I are trying to say is that the specific complaint you have are symptoms of the disease of corruption and hypocrisy. While I definitely agree about your statement, it's only looking at the surface imo.

To bring this back to the OP, this same idea is true for the addictive behaviors you speak of. You can be addicted to anything. Anything. Even emotions. You can be addicted to bias.

Whether it be the corrupted individuals in the upper echelons of church and government or whether it be the boozehound who hasn't been sober in almost a year, both actions are an outward sign of an inner sickness.

The biggest problem with the Christian church and many other fundamentalist religions is the lack of Love. The Christian writings themselves specifically state that God is Love, and anyone who does not Love does not know God.

The majority of people I know that call themselves Christian don't exactly embody the perspective of Love. I'm not saying people should be perfect, but most churches are nothing but clubs of convenience. There's no desire to change the world for the better. There's no desire to live in peace with one another. The same person who passes the peace to you sunday morning is flipping you off in the parking lot in the rush home to see the game.

There is no one individual's fault that this is happening. I attend a Christian church, and it is wonderful. The congregation is active, the pastor is one of the sweetest women I have ever met, and even though I don't agree with the theology being preached, the Message is undeniably one of Love.

This is what a church should be. A group of people drawn together in mutual support of themselves, each other, and the greater community (local and worldwide) in gifts of money and/or service. Welcoming all, loving all, rebuking none.

Sadly, most people would rather have a good image than actually help anyone.

Many churches also put up the facade of a good image, meanwhile manipulating the strings behind the curtain. Ted Haggard himself said proudly that the church can control votes. To people like Ted, God is a tool. He may or may not have a warped idea to explain how he can debauch the otherwise laudable efforts and intentions of the average Christian, but the fact remains that to him it's all a question of power. And it's the same for every prominent figurehead. Power corrupts, and the church today wants what it had three hundred years ago: absolute power.

As for the theology behind the Christian church, I find it barbaric. But very few people are fundamentalist Christians, and therefore blend a healthy mix of the positive things in the Bible with modern life. Sometimes they go overboard and talk about their faith like it's the ONLY reasonable belief system, and in that event I have a problem with them, but usually it's just the institution I cannot stand.

Do you know how much goes to children when you donate to the Christian Children's Fund? It's not a non-profit organization, let me tell you that.

acutelyaware · 09-26-2007, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Static

that's a really good perspective, I probably would have never thought about this. I agree, not doing the things your body needs is just as bad as abusing drugs and alcohol. The only difference I think would be that doing drugs and alcohol would speed up the process.

I'm curious though, what is it exactly that you have to do 3 times a day that you absolutely hate? eat?

exactly. I work with people with eating disorders and have come to understand that not placing emphasis on nourishing your body is just as wrong as abusing your body with outside substances. They really are not being fair. Tthat's all there is to it. And eating disorders, whether OCE, ANA, or BUL are all potentially fatal. One of them, ANA, being the most fatal of all psychological disorders, one, BUL, being the most difficult of all disorders to recover from.
And is not gluttony condemned in the Bible? It's more specifically mentioned as wrong than other issues are.