free will paper-i need opinions!

acutelyaware · 09-13-2007, 05:06 AM

Does anybody want to discuss or throw their input on predestination/calvinism versus armenianism/free will or anything about free will and God and your theories on the matter? I got to write a paper concerning the various views of this debate. Anything you got and why would be sooo helpful!!

also, what does this "digg this story" thing mean down here?

**Opunaya** · 09-13-2007, 05:11 AM

I hate the idea of Predestination, it messes with you're head. I thought that we're suppose to have free will and everything. Also, what about when you're making a choice about something, you'd be like "Am I suppose to choose this? Or is my choosing to do this going to destroy the universe or something?" It's annoying.

**Brother of Yeshua** · 09-13-2007, 02:15 PM

Circumstances are predetermined. Not necessarily specifics, but there are lessons each of us is destined to learn in our lifetime. The lesson will present itself in many forms, and we are presented choices.

It is here where free will exists.

Within that moment, that choice we make will alter the course of our lessons.

If we make the same mistakes over and over, we are doomed to repeat those lessons over and over again.

However, if we can learn our lessons, we can progress through this fog of confusion called life. If we allow life to be our teacher, we can find the path that leads out.

We all enter life with strengths and weaknesses. We can choose to utilize these to our benefit, or allow them to rule us, never seeking new understanding or balance in ourselves, and in turn, the very world around us. Our reality.

What we cannot choose are the actions of others, the circumstances of our life, and the course of events that life may take. These events present themselves as they are meant to, in due time, and in due patience.

In the immortal words of Gandalf, in response to Frodo's wish that the ring had not befallen him, "So do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."

acutelyaware · 09-14-2007, 04:37 AM

so...basically focus on the present moment and everything else will take care of itself in due time?

**Brother of Yeshua** · 09-14-2007, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acutelyaware

so...basically focus on the present moment and everything else will take care of itself in due time?

Basically, yes. I'm not saying don't have goals or dreams or plans for the future, and I'm not saying don't reflect on your past path through life, but without action in the present moment, all that is empty philosophizing and wishing.

We have the freewill to take action at any moment, and change the course of our life events. But within that course, as you said, things will design themselves to work out the way things are necessary to.

In this we must also accept good with the bad. The bad, however bad it may be, is trying to wake us up to something. I'm not saying if bad thing happen, you are doing something wrong, just that it is through hardship that we learn the most from life, and there are some difficult lessons we are called to learn (especially at this stage in the history of time).

Again, the future is not written in stone. There are many paths we can choose to become a part of, all laid out before us.

The choice is which path will we take?

**Ristaron** · 09-26-2007, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by acutelyaware

does anybody want to discuss or throw thier input on predestination/calvinism versus armenianism/free will or anything about free will and God and your theories on the matter? i gotta write a paper concerning the various views of this debate. anything you got and why would be sooo helpful!!

My advice: re-read your grammar book and commit yourself to it. Because if you turned in something to me written like what I see you write on here, I'd burn it.

acutelyaware · 09-27-2007, 04:29 AM

Alright, alright, sometimes I forget BT is like a bunch of fucking straightforward professors. geez. I will edit this one too.

Abrasax · 11-02-2007, 09:12 AM

Hopefully this will work, I copied and pasted a paper I wrote. lol, I don't believe everything in this paper but it was for school.

Mechanical Determinism
Advantages and Moral Implications

free will- the doctrine that the conduct of human being expresses personal choice and is not simply determined by physical or divine forces (free will).

We live in a nation based on the belief that people have freedom of choice and must, in turn, be held accountable for their actions. Individuals tend to cling to the idea that they are responsible for their own actions; anything else would instantly trigger a deep depression. If the idea of free will were to be eradicated, what effects would it have on our society as a whole? What effects would it have on our sense of punishment for crimes? Although the spreading of this idea may be harmful to society, I would rather confront the truth rather than ignore the entire dilemma of free will and it’s correlation to moral responsibility. I am a strong disbeliever in free will and because of this, it troubles me to see people punished for things, although it benefits the rest of society.
Every physical object around us moves in predictable manners. Although a die roll is seemingly random, the outcome of the roll is a process of physical laws acting on the die. If physical laws act on all particles, and we are composed of particles, would it be too much of a stretch to establish that our choices are simply the result of physical laws acting on our brain? While we have the illusion of choice, our choices might simply be the direct result of our biology combined with our environment. Wouldn’t it make sense that if two people were born with exactly similar brains in similar environments that they would make exactly the same choices at the same time? They have the same input and processor. It would make sense that they would deliver the same output.
In the nature versus nurture debate, it has been established that both of these play a role in people’s lives. Twins separated at birth often grow up with similar personalities, as well as with similar wives, similar cars, and the same names for their kids (nature). Environment obviously shapes people’s personality. Somebody abused as a child will often have a different personality than a child not abused (nurture). What do we have in our lives besides genetics and environment in which we use to make our choices? Since people can by no means be responsible for either of these factors, if there is no other variable, then how can a person be responsible for their choices?
Often, insane people aren’t held accountable for their actions. It is established by society that they have no control over the way their brain works. Couldn’t the same be said for us? We can by no means help the way our brain works. Any attempt to help the way our thought process works is just our biological brain working. And since we didn’t design our brain, how can we be responsible for the manner in which it makes decisions?
Another factor contributing to my mechanical determinism is the belief that everybody always does what they most want to do, as long as their choices aren’t restricted. Any attempt to escape doing what you most want to do is only the drive of another desire you may have (the want to escape wants). People by no means can help their wants. Any attempt to restrict a want is only the result of another want. So, if people
always do what they most want, and they can’t help what they want, how can they help what they do?
The existence of a God who knew the future would instantly disprove free-will. It would show that the world is on a set course, and there must be, in turn, something holding the course together; the only possibility being physical laws. If the future is course set by physical laws, anything acting under these physical laws cannot be held accountable for the laws controlling their decisions.
People who eventually realize free will doesn’t exist are often struck with a deep desperation; the idea that they can’t do anything to change the future seems depressing. Although the idea can be depressing at first, there are several advantages to it. The belief that everything acts under physical laws triggers a profound sense of amazement. In theory, somebody who saw the very beginning of time and the particle movements in the beginning could predict every single thing that would happen afterward (assuming they knew the position of every particle as well as had a massive amount of intelligence). Somebody now, could do the same thing if they knew enough about the way the world functions. Another major advantage I think is the amount of stress it releases. Knowing that everything will turn out one way seems to take a lot away from the burden of
responsibility. In addition to this, it decreases how worried people are about the future, as well as increasing everyone’s feeling of “being a part of the whole”, creating sympathy and understanding. Sadly, all of these advantages can have horrible side effects as well.
With everybody acting under physical laws, how can punishing anyone be justifiable? Criminals being punished have senses and a consciousness that observes pain caused by something they can’t help- their biological brain. Maybe this is why the
problem of free-will has so long been ignored; the current inability of society to function without the notion of it. Although many harmful effects will come about if society eventually explores free will, I believe we need to examine it in order to justify punishment. If people are tried for crimes and punished for them they at least need to be proven responsible for their actions. The happiness of a society can by no means justify the torment of its individuals. Even though free will is a difficult subject, it needs to be fully explored.

**Ristaron** · 11-04-2007, 03:02 AM

I think that the universe is too vast for anybody to calculate the variables. Even in the extremely remote off-chance that the universe is actually sentient (i.e. metaphysical cosmic God concept many people believe), the universe would act like a living body -- which we can't control ourselves, and therefore would be unable to predict or manipulate how or what we think and act.
We are also predictable, given our predisposition to follow habit and the familiar. We are not, however, entirely predictable, and even if someone would manage to construct a scenario that would predict our every action and gear it towards a specific end, our free will would not be compromised, as it is the individual who is performing the actions and not the mastermind who merely manipulates the expected reactions.
In terms of psychology, we are capable of tricking our minds, overcoming mental inadequacies, and even manifesting psychological problems as physical symptoms; but we never can take away free will, which is the underlining feature of our very consciousness, the defining concept of our individuality. Without this human condition we would all be the same, mindless biological automatons without goals or original thought; something we know is far from the truth given our radically different concepts of life and pleasure and morality. "One man's trash is another man's treasure", "do unto others as you would have them do unto you", and other axioms like these are reflections on this paradigm, which is so firmly entrenched in fundamental reasoning that it conflicts even with religious or philosophical concepts people ardently believe in like "the divine plan" and "predeterminism". While some people construct complicated explanations for how they believe both are in harmony, most people place them at odds, and usually in conflict.
In my opinion, they are trying to impose method upon the madness that is the chaotic nature of life. From beginning to end, nobody is ever the same, not even to themselves from moment to moment. Why? Free will.

Abrasax · 11-04-2007, 06:27 AM

It doesn't matter that people can't calculate the variables. What matters is whether or not we are subject completely subject to physical/chemical/electrical laws.

If you were injected with a drug making you 1,000,000,000,000,000 x's more violent then you are now and you went out and killed somebody I doubt that you would be held wholly responsible, especially if the effect was only temporary. While you consciously made the decision to kill somebody, it wouldn't have been your fault. Then again....you could probably claim it is your fault.

Basically what I'm trying to do is create a metaphor between the drug and the laws that govern your brain. I'm tired though so I'll quit here......