The Creationism Debate

**Nøz** · 04-09-2007, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J_Qua

Lol. Ok, so everything that happened during that time wasnt accounted for. If they had to write every little thing that was going in in every city at that time at every second then we would have millions of chapters instead of 66. Adam and Eve did have more children whose names were not mentioned. AND YES, Cain had kids with his sister, other people in the bible had kids with their siblings or parents or cousins etc but the world had to start somewhere! We are all related actually. IF we could go all the way back looking at our ancestory, we would find a connection somewhere. Incest is wrong but back then it was the way of the world. Only two people were created, if it didn't happen, it would have just been them and their kids. They would have all died and everything would have ended.

Your a creationist huh?

04-09-2007, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noz

Your a creationist huh?

lol. yes I am.

**Nøz** · 04-09-2007, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J_Qua

lol. yes I am.

So you dont believe in any form of evolution to be possible?

04-09-2007, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noz

So you dont believe in any form of evolution to be possible?

Well, I don't believe we came from monkeys... I believe Adam and Eve had the same general appearance that we have. If anything evolved, I would say it was things of the earth like land and such. Like, land was changed due to natural disasters and such. When it comes to human beings and other animals, I believe God created us the way we are now.

About the incest stuff. It's hard to explain why it's not incest though we came from two beings just like its hard to explain why people have different skin colors, different eye colors, different accents, different hair colors and textures when we came from two people. Like, if adam and eve were white, how comes there are people in their generation that are black and have rough textured hair? Or adam and eve were black, where did the blonde people with blue eyes come from? Actually, if you ask me, its much easier to believe that God did it because all things are possible with God than to say we evolved from somewhere you know? I know what monkeys look like. I dont think they have different eye colors and skins colors and such. If we did evolve from them, we would look much more alike than we do. I remember when I was young and I would ask my mom about certain things I didnt understand about the earth, she would tell you to ask God when I get to heaven lol. So, there are some things we are never going to understand. We can guess and what not but we will never know the real truth. I believe the world turned out just as God wanted it to.

**Ristaron** · 04-09-2007, 11:06 PM

Quote:

its much easier to believe that God did it because all things are possible with God than to say we evolved from somewhere you know?

Do you honestly expect us to take you seriously when that's your reason?

It's easier to say the magical stork brings babies.
It's easier to say the Earth is flat.
It's easier to say the Sun revolves around the Earth.
It's easier to say gremlins invaded the engine.
It's easier to say "Santa's magical".
It's easier to say "just because".

THAT DOESN'T PROVE ANYTHING!!!

*ahem* continue...

04-09-2007, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ristaron

Do you honestly expect us to take you seriously when that's your reason?

I wasnt trying to prove anything. I was just saying it because I dont understand how people find it easy to believe in evolution but they cant understand creation. I think its much easier to accept that God create the earth than to accept that we evolved from monkeys. If I didnt know about creation and I thought I evolved from monkeys, I would have so many questions. Like, where did the monkeys come from? The fact that there is a God makes sense to me. To me, it actually explains how we came to be. I wouldnt be able to comprehend any other explanation. Im so amazed with this world seriously. Just everything, like how someone was able to create a plane and make it actually soar through the sky. And how people were able to create clothing. How did they know what to put together to make such materials? And how were they able to figure out that they could actually take stuff from a tree and turn it into paper and write on it? And how could people figure out how to make signals travel through wires for telephones and internet and such. How did someone take million little materials and put them together to build a computer? Houses, and fans, and cars, and cups. Just everything. It's so amazing that people were able to create those things when they started out wearing grass skirts and living in huts. How did they know to manufacture materials into new products? Cures, etc, etc. Without a God, nothing makes sense to me. Because I believe he gave people insight to do all that. I doubt I could figure out how to make a lightbulb. Without God giving talents, people would be extinct. They would have probably all died from diseases or starvation because they wouldnt have known to plant seeds to make new fruits... just something to think about

**Ristaron** · 04-10-2007, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J_Qua

I wasnt trying to prove anything. I was just saying it because I dont understand how people find it easy to believe in evolution but they cant understand creation. I think its much easier to accept that God create the earth than to accept that we evolved from monkeys. If I didnt know about creation and I thought I evolved from monkeys, I would have so many questions. Like, where did the monkeys come from? The fact that there is a God makes sense to me. To me, it actually explains how we came to be. I wouldnt be able to comprehend any other explanation. Im so amazed with this world seriously. Just everything, like how someone was able to create a plane and make it actually soar through the sky. And how people were able to create clothing. How did they know what to put together to make such materials? And how were they able to figure out that they could actually take stuff from a tree and turn it into paper and write on it? And how could people figure out how to make signals travel through wires for telephones and internet and such. How did someone take million little materials and put them together to build a computer? Houses, and fans, and cars, and cups. Just everything. It's so amazing that people were able to create those things when they started out wearing grass skirts and living in huts. How did they know to manufacture materials into new products? Cures, etc, etc. Without a God, nothing makes sense to me. Because I believe he gave people insight to do all that. I doubt I could figure out how to make a lightbulb. Without God giving talents, people would be extinct. They would have probably all died from diseases or starvation because they wouldnt have known to plant seeds to make new fruits... just something to think about

Do you know how much trial and error went into those inventions? It's not like the Wright brothers just looked at each other one day and said "hey, let's make an airplane. I'll draw up the specs and you collect the materials". No. Humans have been attempting to create flying machines for HUNDREDS of years. Leonardo Da Vinci, the greatest mind of his time, was obsessed with flying, the only thing he lacked was modern technology to help him. Which brings us to computers.
Do you know how the silicon chip came to be? (...do you even know what a silicon chip is?) From previous inventions. Which came from previous inventions. Which came from previous inventions. Konrad Zuse, who made the first freely programmable computer, did so with aid of previous inventions which are all traced to less complicated ones. People don't miraculously come up with specifications for these things!
Similarly, monkeys came from less complex organisms, which came from less complex organisms until you get all the way back to the single celled bacteria that lived billions of years ago.
Just because you're too naive to understand it doesn't mean God struck people with a bolt of lightning that gave them all the knowledge they needed.

Let's assume for the sake of the argument that you're right, and God created Adam and Steve... I mean Eve... 6,000 years ago. Along with all the universe and blah blah.
What about the Australopithecus? The Ardipithecus? The Homo Erectus? Any of the fossils of human ancestors who date back MILLIONS (if not counting in the billions) of years?
How do you explain hurricanes? Earthquakes? Just as random divine interventions? The fact that you don't understand Plate Tectonics, or the Coriolis Effect means that those things don't exist and there's only God?

Does this not seem primitive to you? Attributing events that occur to divine design is something the GREEKS did.

If you got schmucked by a bus tomorrow as you walked to church, would you still attribute the events of your life to 'divine grace'?

06-04-2007, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ristaron

Do you honestly expect us to take you seriously when that's your reason?

It's easier to say the magical stork brings babies.
It's easier to say the Earth is flat.
It's easier to say the Sun revolves around the Earth.
It's easier to say gremlins invaded the engine.
It's easier to say "Santa's magical".
It's easier to say "just because".

THAT DOESN'T PROVE ANYTHING!!!

*ahem* continue...

umm not really easier to say..., one creationism is a philosophical assertion because we can't go back and observe it but to say the earth is flat etc..well we can observe that it isnt flat or storks dont bring babies. etc.
---- i would believe in evolution if you can explain where DNA came from or how come we don't have transitory fossils or even better where did the matter come from that we supposedly came from. well, some would say it always existed but the universe couldn't possible have always existed because that would contradict the 2nd law of thermodynamics for if the cosmos is running out of useable energy, and if it existed infinitely in the past then we would have run out by now for the universes supply is finite. so the universe must had a begininning, so is it so unreasonable to conclude it had a beginner??? it boils down to did something(God) cause an infinitely expanding universe or nothing caused it... well in all my experience I've seen nothing do nothing!! it takes a lot of faith to believe that nothing did something.... I'm sorry I dont have enough faith to be an athiestic evolutionist, i would rather conclude that an infinite God can make such a thing called the cosmos and us.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ristaron

Do you know how much trial and error went into those inventions? It's not like the Wright brothers just looked at each other one day and said "hey, let's make an airplane. I'll draw up the specs and you collect the materials". No. Humans have been attempting to create flying machines for HUNDREDS of years. Leonardo Da Vinci, the greatest mind of his time, was obsessed with flying, the only thing he lacked was modern technology to help him. Which brings us to computers.
Do you know how the silicon chip came to be? (...do you even know what a silicon chip is?) From previous inventions. Which came from previous inventions. Which came from previous inventions. Konrad Zuse, who made the first freely programmable computer, did so with aid of previous inventions which are all traced to less complicated ones. People don't miraculously come up with specifications for these things!
Similarly, monkeys came from less complex organisms, which came from less complex organisms until you get all the way back to the single celled bacteria that lived billions of years ago.
Just because you're too naive to understand it doesn't mean God struck people with a bolt of lightning that gave them all the knowledge they needed.

Let's assume for the sake of the argument that you're right, and God created Adam and Steve... I mean Eve... 6,000 years ago. Along with all the universe and blah blah.
What about the Australopithecus? The Ardipithecus? The Homo Erectus? Any of the fossils of human ancestors who date back MILLIONS (if not counting in the billions) of years?
How do you explain hurricanes? Earthquakes? Just as random divine interventions? The fact that you don't understand Plate Tectonics, or the Coriolis Effect means that those things don't exist and there's only God?

Does this not seem primitive to you? Attributing events that occur to divine design is something the GREEKS did.

If you got schmucked by a bus tomorrow as you walked to church, would you still attribute the events of your life to 'divine grace'?

umm yeah....there's is a HUGE flaw, i grant you that may be our modern inventions come previous inventions but it doesn't follow that evolution is the same way,but I am forced to ask you this qeustion....doesnt an invention inply an inventor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the wright brother's we're intelligent beings, Leonardo Da Vinci was a being with intelligence so even if technology did "evolve" it did so with the help of an itelliengence. did the airplane come into being by a volcana spewing melted iron and wind blew ore into an engine and lightning struck and then a electrical system for the plane, and over three centuries the plan was made? to say so would be illogical. so when we see our vast wonderful univerve which is incredably detailed and orderly, it is not so naive of us to think that may be a design implies a designer...ahem God

-and i disagree with your assertion that human remains are millions of years old, because C-14 dating is only accurate up to ten thousand years, if you do some research you will find those dates you refer to usually come from scientist who assume evolution is true and thus place those dates in order to fit their philosophy, so for you to use them in your arguement would be assuming your conclusion to prove it thus BEGGING THE QEUSTION!!!!
-"How do you explain hurricanes? Earthquakes? Just as random divine interventions? The fact that you don't understand Plate Tectonics, or the Coriolis Effect means that those things don't exist and there's only God?"
we not saying that everything is caused by God but simply God caused everything to exist. we not attributing all events
of life to God but rather the creation of life itself to God's design.

**Ristaron** · 06-05-2007, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joseph

and i disagree with your assertion that human remains are millions of years old, because C-14 dating is only accurate up to ten thousand years

I am not going to argue your other points as, despite my vast amounts of evidence against, it's the point of this section that the presupposition is that God exists. Thereby, I shall show you how this rather important part of your counterargument is totally flawed.

When doing Radiocarbon dating (C14 to N14), there is a technique called 'spiking'. The process is that you add an amount to the total carbon, and then subtract the amount you added after the test is done. The negative value you get is the age beyond that 10,000 year limit radiocarbon dating is "only accurate up to".
Given that you don't understand that rather well-known, sensible technique, I would invite you to reconsider what you believe you are arguing against before again attempting to highlight "flaws" in the scientific "assertions".

Zwardfulk · 06-06-2007, 12:18 AM

I don't care where the earth came from.

I don't care what caused the universe to form.

I don't care if the world was thought of as flat in the past.

I know this:

I'm here because my parents fucked. They raised me using reason and "faith" though now I see that faith is something you can't see. If I can't see or believe it exists then I don't use it. I don't use rocket science because I can't. I use what abilities I have to do what I believe to be right. If there's a deity somewhere that is judging me for living my life for me then I hope he gets a good show.

I don't believe in Creation though I believe in the evolution of humans. We didn't "evolve from monkeys", we were always there.. just more primitive than now.

The only question I have for creationists is: if God created man in THIS form on the 6th day, then where the fuck do dinosaur fossils come from? NEVER understood this...