Christians and evangelizing.

**Ristaron** · 03-02-2007, 09:38 AM

Alright. Now that I've finally been able to watch the video, I have some things to say (as an existentialist and as an atheist):

1) I do not have self-loathing
2) Christianity is oppressive. You stop evangelizing, we'll stop fighting against it. (Not that I don't disagree with people who go into churches to attack the faith... that's hypocritical.)
3) If he wants to respectfully discuss it with me, he can stop saying we're sad, hating, and selfish in our malicious attempts to draw people away from the delusion of eternal life so they'll make better use of the only life they're going to get.

Just my opinion.

Connor · 03-03-2007, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ristaron

Alright. Now that I've finally been able to watch the video, I have some things to say (as an existentialist and as an atheist):

1) I do not have self-loathing
2) Christianity is oppressive. You stop evangelizing, we'll stop fighting against it. (Not that I don't disagree with people who go into churches to attack the faith... that's hypocritical.)
3) If he wants to respectfully discuss it with me, he can stop saying we're sad, hating, and selfish in our malicious attempts to draw people away from the delusion of eternal life so they'll make better use of the only life they're going to get.

Just my opinion.

Christians will stop evangelizing when Jesus comes back. It is one of THE staples of our faith to tell people about it. If we are right, then there is nothing wrong with sharing, and everything wrong with hording, the faith.

Katerpunk · 03-03-2007, 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Connor

Christians will stop evangelizing when Jesus comes back. It is one of THE staples of our faith to tell people about it. If we are right, then there is nothing wrong with sharing, and everything wrong with hording, the faith.

Well, if he's coming back, you guys have been waiting a very very long time. If he is supposed to grace us with his presence, I think the best time would be.... now.

**Ristaron** · 03-03-2007, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Connor

If we are right, then there is nothing wrong with sharing, and everything wrong with hording, the faith.

IF! IF!!!!

But many are of the opinion that you are WRONG, and some find it detrimental to society for you to draw people away from living their lives for themselves, and not some fictional deity.
So we're enlightening them of what we see as true and good for themselves [and everyone], and you have the temerity to say we don't have their better interests in mind??

Connor · 03-03-2007, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ristaron

IF! IF!!!!

But many are of the opinion that you are WRONG, and some find it detrimental to society for you to draw people away from living their lives for themselves, and not some fictional deity.
So we're enlightening them of what we see as true and good for themselves [and everyone], and you have the temerity to say we don't have their better interests in mind??

If people live merely for themselves, how are the interests of others in mind? Society does not thrive because everyone is out for themselves. If you want an example of why that DOESN'T work, look at news broadcasts after a disaster, like Katrina. Looting and violence and neglect, to save one's OWN skin. That doesn't help society as a whole. How can a person concentrating on themselves help others? And I'm not an idiot, I know not everyone did that, but the point is that the people who were only looking out for themselves were harmful to others, not helpful.

And opinions, in the end, do not matter. My opinions about God, or yours, or anyone else's, don't matter. He is who he is. I can't change that with perception. All I know is that God loves people, and that's a small bit of the truth without perception. I don't care who thinks I'm wrong; I thought it was wrong, too, but I gave it a chance, I actually gave up myself in order to see if it was true. In the end, I found out it was.

**Ristaron** · 03-03-2007, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Connor

If people live merely for themselves, how are the interests of others in mind? Society does not thrive because everyone is out for themselves. If you want an example of why that DOESN'T work, look at news broadcasts after a disaster, like Katrina. Looting and violence and neglect, to save one's OWN skin. That doesn't help society as a whole. How can a person concentrating on themselves help others? And I'm not an idiot, I know not everyone did that, but the point is that the people who were only looking out for themselves were harmful to others, not helpful.

Incorrect. Most people have inherent good that leads them to compassion. Compassion leads to a functioning society, where people respect other people because they recognize them as equals.
Morals aren't derived from the Bible, otherwise we'd be stoning people who worked on Saturday, burning pagans at the stake, and executing homosexuals.
Or, if you're going to argue on the New Testament, we'd all be at war anyways.
Jesus said: "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it." (Matthew 10:34-39)

When you look at quotes like that, you wonder just who hates who.

**Brother of Yeshua** · 03-03-2007, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Connor

Christians will stop evangelizing when Jesus comes back. It is one of THE staples of our faith to tell people about it. If we are right, then there is nothing wrong with sharing, and everything wrong with hording, the faith.

The Great Commision says to "go and tell the good news" What is the good news? According to the New Testament, the good news is that all sins are forgiven and that Christ died while we were all yet sinners.

And yet many Christians sure like to tell everyone else how they have to live if they want salvation. A lot of them like to think they're perfect already and don't need to change which somehow allows them to judge everyone else. I'm not saying don't have opinions, but unless someone comes to ask your advice or opinion on something, chances are they don't want to know about it.

So telling someone "Jesus will forgive you for your sins if you believe in him" You give people the option of saying "Thanks but no thanks." But telling someone all the things that they're doing wrong makes it a big long list of don'ts. Interestingly, Jesus focused on two do's.

Evangelizing isn't discipling, and no one seems to bother to teach followers of Christianity that little fact.

The Pianist · 03-03-2007, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ristaron

Incorrect. Most people have inherent good that leads them to compassion. Compassion leads to a functioning society, where people respect other people because they recognize them as equals.
Morals aren't derived from the Bible, otherwise we'd be stoning people who worked on Saturday, burning pagans at the stake, and executing homosexuals.
Or, if you're going to argue on the New Testament, we'd all be at war anyways.
Jesus said: "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it." (Matthew 10:34-39)

When you look at quotes like that, you wonder just who hates who.

But he is not talking literally. Read the rest of it.

16Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
17But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;
18And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.
19But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
20For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
21And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
22And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
23But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.
24The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.
25It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?
26Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known.
27What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.
28And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
29Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.
30But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
31Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.
32Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
33But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
37He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
38And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
39He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

If you want an explanation on anything send me a pm

**Ristaron** · 03-04-2007, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Pianist

But he is not talking literally. Read the rest of it.

16Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
17But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;
18And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.
19But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.
20For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
21And the brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death.
22And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
23But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.
24The disciple is not above his master, nor the servant above his lord.
25It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they call them of his household?
26Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known.
27What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.
28And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
29Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? and one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father.
30But the very hairs of your head are all numbered.
31Fear ye not therefore, ye are of more value than many sparrows.
32Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
33But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
34Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
37He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
38And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
39He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.

If you want an explanation on anything send me a pm

It's STILL advocating violence. And prove it isn't anything but literal, but in a PM please. This thread is getting quite off-topic now.

Here's an interesting article about this topic:
Atheism Myths: do atheists hate God and Christians?

The Pianist · 03-04-2007, 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ristaron

It's STILL advocating violence. And prove it isn't anything but literal, but in a PM please. This thread is getting quite off-topic now.

Here's an interesting article about this topic:
Atheism Myths: do atheists hate God and Christians?

Its advocating violence as much as much as free willy advocates environmental destruction.