Christian Heaven

El Pirata · 09-07-2007, 02:43 PM

Some, if not most Christians would say that Heaven is well. . . in the heavens!! By that I mean some think it is out there in our physical universe. My belief, is that it is not in this physical universe, but perhaps in another dimension, as well as perhaps Hell. Anyways, what is your opinion on this, of course assuming we are to believe that either exist in one form or another.

Static · 09-07-2007, 03:53 PM

unless it's in a nother galaxy or something, then it has to be in some other type of dimension. We've seen a lot of things in our known universe, never once has one been confused with heaven or hell. And I think it would be pretty hard to hide what some 35 billion souls that were saved, and another 65 that weren't...

nah, the physical place of heaven and hell is not in the known universe... or that's what I think at least...

**Laina** · 09-07-2007, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Static

We've seen a lot of things in our known universe, never once has one been confused with hell.

I beg to differ.

**Brother of Yeshua** · 09-07-2007, 07:09 PM

Yeshua said many would tell you to look here or look there for the Kingdom of God, but that the true Kingdom is within.

Could it be that "heaven" and "hell" are merely states of mind?

Perhaps The Revealing (Apocalypse) is nothing more than a mass transformation of mind which in turn will fully realize the Kingdom.

Let's also not forget that Yeshua said there are those who would inherit the earth, meaning the earth is not set for destruction.

El Pirata · 09-10-2007, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother of Yeshua

Yeshua said many would tell you to look here or look there for the Kingdom of God, but that the true Kingdom is within.

Could it be that "heaven" and "hell" are merely states of mind?

Perhaps The Revealing (Apocalypse) is nothing more than a mass transformation of mind which in turn will fully realize the Kingdom.

Let's also not forget that Yeshua said there are those who would inherit the earth, meaning the earth is not set for destruction.

Hmm you have a point, as far as I can understand.

So, I guess kinda reiterating the question, where would your soul go after you die. Perhaps another dimension? Perhaps materialized in some form or another in another galaxy or another part of this galaxy?

**Brother of Yeshua** · 09-10-2007, 07:09 PM

I believe in the rough concept of "reincarnation" but I think that the term is rather poetically glorified.

Scientifically, matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed within the constructs of this universe. So if our physical body dies, our soul/spirit/essence/whatever word you like would not be destroyed.

Perhaps we return to the source, waiting to be placed back in the universe. Perhaps we are in a limbo of sorts, only to be revived at the end of time.

Also, perhaps the end is not the same for everyone. I subscribe to the idea of ancient Jewish mystics, where the world is the training ground for the soul. Perhaps some of us do not need to return to this world, but others of us still have lessons to learn.

Also, this idea makes more sense with the idea of judgement and condemnation seen in Christianity. If we have all had countless lifetimes to make amends and learn our lessons, we have no excuses for not learning them.

Also, for anyone about to jump on me for bringing reincarnation into a discussion on christianity, Origen, one of the fathers of christianity, believed in the "transmigration of souls" (or Jewish reincarnation) and supported it, until the Roman church took over the teachings of Chrisitanity, and it was declared illegal to preach, teach, or believe in and it was made heretical dogma.

**Ristaron** · 09-10-2007, 07:39 PM

Well, if we're to go back to the origins of it all... I would think we'd be talking about Horus.

Heaven is described many times in the Bible, but its location was never expressly explained. Instead, it seemed synonymous with the sky. They would say "up in the heavens". Keep in mind this was back when people couldn't fly, and only dream of touching the clouds.

In short, if you're to follow the Bible literally, the only logical assumption for where "heaven" is is above us, in the sky. Even in space.

acutelyaware · 09-10-2007, 08:54 PM

yeah, i think it could be another dimension. both hell and heaven. but i do think it's an actual physical place bc it's measurements are described in the Bible

WillyBubba · 09-10-2007, 09:15 PM

Not to mention that two things necessary for life (rain and sunlight) come from above. God's literally showering us with gifts.

El Pirata · 09-11-2007, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother of Yeshua

I believe in the rough concept of "reincarnation" but I think that the term is rather poetically glorified.

Scientifically, matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed within the constructs of this universe. So if our physical body dies, our soul/spirit/essence/whatever word you like would not be destroyed.

Perhaps we return to the source, waiting to be placed back in the universe. Perhaps we are in a limbo of sorts, only to be revived at the end of time.

Also, perhaps the end is not the same for everyone. I subscribe to the idea of ancient Jewish mystics, where the world is the training ground for the soul. Perhaps some of us do not need to return to this world, but others of us still have lessons to learn.

Also, this idea makes more sense with the idea of judgement and condemnation seen in Christianity. If we have all had countless lifetimes to make amends and learn our lessons, we have no excuses for not learning them.

Also, for anyone about to jump on me for bringing reincarnation into a discussion on christianity, Origen, one of the fathers of christianity, believed in the "transmigration of souls" (or Jewish reincarnation) and supported it, until the Roman church took over the teachings of Chrisitanity, and it was declared illegal to preach, teach, or believe in and it was made heretical dogma.

wow great post, I always love hearing your side of things on issues such as these, as for the reincarnation part, well this is posted on a christian thread but I didnt mean for it to mean necessarily christian beliefs so I definitely welcome your stance on it.

Also, does the bible not mention several levels of heaven, I believe old testament? As for physical dimensions, where does the bible specifically say how big each are? I wouldnt necessarily think there would be a limit in space in either of them. As for them being physical in nature, are you saying that they wouldnt feel real if they were in another dimension or something?