So maybe I'm being paraniod.....

cheshirecat · #1 (**permalink**) 02-05-2008, 10:01 PM

Does anyone else feel like America is moving towards becoming a fascist Society? I was discussing this with a buddy and he pointed me in the direction of this book listing steps other countries went through and how leaders like Hitler and Mussolini came to power legally through the democracy of their own countries. I'm not done reading, but it does kinda feed my paranoia that his nations seeds of destruction are starting to take root.

RATSOADM · 02-06-2008, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Everyone likes to say, "Hitler did this", and, "Hitler did that". But the truth is Hitler did very little. He was a world class tyrant, but the evil actually done by the Third Reich, from the death camps to WW2 was all done by German citizens who were afraid to question if what they were told by their government was the truth or not, and who because they did not want to admit to themselves that they were afraid to question the government, refused to see the truth behind the Reichstag Fire, refused to see the invasion by Poland was a staged fake, and followed Hitler into national disaster. The German people of the late 1930s imagined themselves to be brave. They saw themselves as the heroic Germans depicted by the Wagnerian Operas, the descendants of the fierce Germanic warriors who had hunted wild boar with nothing but spears and who had defeated three of Rome's mightiest legions in the Tuetenberg Forest.

But in truth, by the 1930s, the German people had become civilized and tamed, culturally obsessed with fine details in both science and society. Their self-image of bravery was both salve and slavery. Germans were required to behave as if they were brave, even when they were not.

It's easy to look back and realize what a jerk Hitler was. But at the time, Hitler looked pretty good to the German people, with the help of the media. He was TIME Magazine's Man Of The Year in 1938. The German people assumed they were safe from a tyrant. They lived in a Republic, after all, with strict laws regarding what the government could and more importantly could not do. Their leader was a devoutly religious man, and had even sung with the boy's choir of a monastery in his youth.

The reality was that the German people, as individuals, had lost their courage. The German government preferred it that way as a fearful people are easier to rule than a courageous one. But the German people didn't wish to lose their self-image of courage. So, when confronted with a situation demanding individual courage, in the form of a government gone wrong, the German people simply pretended that the situation did not exist. And in that simple self-deception lay the ruin of an entire nation and the coming of the second World War.

When the Reichstag burned down, most Germans simply refused to believe suggestions that the fire had been staged by Hitler himself. They were afraid to. But so trapped were the Germans by their belief in their own bravery that they willed themselves to be blind to the evidence before their eyes, so that they could nod in agreement with Der Fuhrer while still imagining themselves to have courage, even as they avoided the one situation which most required real courage; to stand up to Hitler's lies and deceptions.

When Hitler requested temporary extraordinary powers, powers specifically banned under German law, but powers Hitler claimed he needed to have to deal with the "terrorists", the German people, having already sold their souls to their self-delusions, agreed. The temporary powers were conferred, and once conferred lasted until Germany itself was destroyed.

When Hitler staged a phony invasion from Poland, the vast majority of the German people, their own self-image dependant on continuing blindness to Hitler's deceptions, did not question why Poland would have done something so stupid, and found themselves in a war.

But Hitler knew he ruled a nation of cowards, and knew he had to spend the money to make the new war something cowards could fight and win. He decorated his troops with regalia to make them proud of themselves, further trapping them in their self-image. Hitler copied the parade regalia of ancient Rome, to remind the Germans of the defeat of the legions at the Tuetenberg Forest. Talismans were added from orthodox religions and the occult to fill the soldiers with delusions of mystical strengths and an afterlife if they fell in battle. Finally, knowing that it takes courage to kill the enemy face to face, Hitler spent vast sums of money on his wonder weapons, airplanes, submarines, ultra-long range artillery, the world's first cruise missile and the world's first guided missile, weapons that could be used to kill at a distance, so that those doing the killing need not have to face the reality of what they were doing.

The German people were lured into WW2 not because they were brave, but because they were cowards who wanted to be seen as brave, and found that shooting long range weapons at people they could not see took less courage than standing up to Hitler. Sent into battle by that false image of courage, the Germans were dependent on their wonder-weapons. When the wonder-weapons stopped working, the Germans lost the war.

I remember as a child listening to the stories of WW2 from my grandfather and my uncles who had served in Europe. I wondered how the German people could have been so stupid as to have ever elected Hitler dog catcher, let alone leader of the nation. Such is the clarity of historical hindsight. And with that clarity, I see the exact same mechanism that Hitler used at work here in this nation.

The American people imagine themselves to be brave. They see themselves as the heroic Americans depicted by Western Movies, the descendants of the fierce patriot warriors who had tamed the frontier and defeated the might of the British Empire.

But in truth, by the dawn of the third millennium, the American people have become civilized and tamed, culturally obsessed with fine details in both science and society. Their self-image of bravery is both salve and slavery. Americans are required to behave as if they are brave, even when they are not.

The American people assume they are safe. They live in a Republic, after all, with strict laws regarding what the government can and more importantly cannot do. Their leader is a devoutly religious man.

The reality is that the American people, as individuals, have lost their courage. The government prefers it that way as a fearful people are easier to rule than a courageous one. But Americans don't wish to lose their self-image of courage. So, when confronted with a situation demanding courage, in the form of a government gone wrong, the American people simply pretend that the situation does not exist.

When the World Trade Towers collapsed, most Americans simply refused to believe suggestions that the attacks had been staged by parties working for the US Government itself. Americans were afraid to, even as news reports surfaced proving that the US Government had announced plans for the invasion of Afghanistan early in the year, plans into which the attacks on the World Trade Towers which angered the American people into support of the already-planned war fit entirely too conveniently. But so trapped are Americans by their belief in their own bravery that they will themselves to be blind to the evidence before their eyes, so that they can nod in agreement with the government while still imagining themselves to have courage, even as they avoid the one situation which most requires real courage; to stand up to the government's lies and deceptions. The vast majority of the American people, their own self-image dependant on continuing blindness to the government's deceptions, never question why Afghanistan would have done something so stupid as to attack the United States, and as a result, Americans find themselves in a war.

Now the US Government has requested temporary extraordinary powers, powers specifically banned under Constitutional law, but powers the government is claiming they need to have to deal with the "terrorists". The American people, having already sold their souls to their self-delusions, are agreeing. The temporary powers recently conferred will be no more temporary in America than they were in Germany.

The US Government knows they rule a nation of cowards. The government has had to spend the money to make the new war something cowards can fight. The government has decorated the troops with regalia to make them proud of themselves, further trapping them in their self-image. Talismans are added from orthodox religions and the occult to fill the soldiers with delusions of mystical strengths and an afterlife if they fall in battle.

Finally, knowing that it takes courage to kill the enemy face to face, the United States government has spent vast sums of money on wonder weapons, airplanes, submarines, ultra-long range artillery, cruise missiles, and guided missiles, weapons that kill at a distance, so that those doing the killing need not have to face the reality of what they are doing.

As I mentioned above, Hitler was TIME Magazine's Man Of The Year in 1938. Stalin was TIME Magazine's Man Of The Year for 1939 and 1942. Both of these men, and many others also celibrated by the media, were unimaginable monsters. The lesson from these facts is that it isn't easy to spot a genocidal tyrant when you live with one, especially one whom the press supports and promotes. Tyrants become obvious only when looking back, after what they have done becomes known. The German people did not stand up to Hitler because their media betrayed them, just as the American media is betraying the American people by willingly, voluntarily, even proudly, abandoning its traditional role as watchdog against government abuse.

It is the very nature of power that it attracts the sort of people who should not have it. The United States, as the world's last superpower, is a prize that attracts men and women willing to do absolutely anything to win that power, and hence are also willing to do absolutely anything with that power once they have it. If one thinks about it long enough, one will realize that all tyrants, past and most especially present, MUST use deception on their population to initiate a war. No citizen of a modern industrialized nation will send their children off to die in a war to grab another nation's resources and assets, yet resources and assets are what all wars are fought over. The nation that wishes to initiate a war of conquest must create the illusion of an attack or a threat to start a war, and must always give their population of cowards an excuse never to question that carefully crafted illusion.

It is naive, not to mention racist to assume that tyrants appear only in other nations and that somehow America is immune simply because we're Americans. America has escaped the clutches of a dictatorship thus far only through the efforts of those citizens who, unlike the Germans of the 1930s, have the moral courage to stand up and point out where the government is lying to the people. Unless more Americans are willing to have that kind of individual courage, then future generations may well look back on the American people with the same harshness of judgement with which we look back on the 1930s Germans.

Give that a read

El Pirata · 02-06-2008, 01:24 AM

you mean like in 1984? lol yea go ahead and read that book, you might become even more paranoid. Hell with them trying to take my privacy away japan sure looks nicer, seeing how invasion of privacy is seemingly illegal over there.

rightwinger · 02-06-2008, 06:53 AM

Quote:

Give that a read

Who wrote it?

You should always cite sources and whatnot.

**Brother of Yeshua** · 02-06-2008, 01:02 PM

Does it matter? Research the facts on your own. A name attached to something shouldn't cause you to believe or disbelieve anything on it's own.

Everyone's right some of the time.

rightwinger · 02-07-2008, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother of Yeshua

Does it matter? Research the facts on your own. A name attached to something shouldn't cause you to believe or disbelieve anything on it's own.

Everyone's right some of the time.

Yes it matters. You should cite your sources. Post links. Here:

THE RISE OF THE FOURTH REICH

I didn't see an author's name.

But he's essentially wrong in a lot of the things he says. The German people lost their courage? No. That's not really what happened. When countries, or people in general, are in complete disorder....they will latch onto anyone promising the order they are missing. This is how dictatorships rise. This is why they rise in economically destitute situations.

Also:

Quote:

But Hitler knew he ruled a nation of cowards

This person has no grasp on history. He's making shit up. Hitler was proud of the German people. The whole reason he rose to power, was from his anger over the once proud German people being reduced to nothing. He fought in WWI, and was completely shell shocked when Germany ended up losing. He blamed the communists, felt they had been screwed over. Then the Treaty of Versailles basically raped Germany...which fueled his anger.

Hitler wanted to restore the Roman empire, and he wanted to restore the German people to the forefront of the world. He did not believe he ruled a nation of cowards at all. He wanted Berlin to be the new Athens.

Also:

Quote:

As I mentioned above, Hitler was TIME Magazine's Man Of The Year in 1938. Stalin was TIME Magazine's Man Of The Year for 1939 and 1942. Both of these men, and many others also celibrated by the media, were unimaginable monsters.

They weren't celebrated. Time Magazine doesn't reward people by putting them on the cover. They simply choose the most significant figure for the year. Well, actually Stalin was kind of pumped up by American media, but he was an ally at the time. Also. This guy needs to run a spell check before he publishes this shit.

Seriously though. I don't know who wrote that. But it is tripe. It's like he just assumed history, and tried to make a link between Hitler and Bush. Terrible stuff from whoever wrote that.

cheshirecat · 02-07-2008, 05:39 PM

Though I agree that Hitler was the almighty figure head for Germany at that time in history, I will not deny his pride in his country or the fact the man had the charisma to place a country under his spell, them somehow gained enough power to have half a world in fear of him. The man wasn't a one man wrecking ball he had help. Some of his generals had the greatest war tactics to date. (in my opinion) I've read alot of Goerge Orwell and the man had the man was on to something. I do believe that the government is only letting the people think they have the power when really, our effect is 30% at best. I still want to know who's taking part in these surveys that say the higher percent of America is happy with the current stage of events. No one, is so oblivious that they are happy with the way things are going in this nation. Perfect example is my G.Ma. She will always and forever see her place as in the home, and politics for the men. Even she has noticed the state we are in and she doesn't even have television or internet. To many things that bother me have unanswered questions to them. I'm about to start rambling but I'm starting to think that this country will fall. Soon and quite hard.

WillyBubba · 02-07-2008, 06:04 PM

Well then, this is sure to help, I got this email today from a man who attended a meeting of the Ohio Election Justice Campaign. Apparently everybody there was given documents that go into more detail about exactly what was happening.

Quote:

It was a very informative meeting and they covered at many issues. I'll briefly go over some of the things they mentioned. They gave us copies of all documents.

1. They have documented evidence that ballots were destroyed for the Ohio general election in 2004.
2. They have documented evidence that some paper ballots were tampered with in which Kerry votes were replaced with Bush votes.
3. They have a statement from an Ohio official that admitted that the Ohio Election laws were not always applied and were optional.
4. All precincts that could not account for all their ballots were to write a letter to explain why. One wrote that a self collapsed and broke a single 10 cup coffee pot and broken glass and coffee stained six boxes of ballots. They immediately took all the boxes and dumped them into a dumpster.
5. Another county admitted they they intentionally destroyed unused ballots and have done this for years. This is a felony to destroy ballots. Also, if you destroy the unused ballots, how do you know all the ballots were unused? There is no way to verify.

6. The Ohio law for audits and recounts defines random for a random audit by saying the first precinct in each county should be audited. Thus, even before the election starts, they know which precincts will be audit and thus they know which precinct to avoid tampering with and which ones that would be audited at all. In 2004, Kerry performed significantly better in counties they knew that would be audited.
7. The electronic touch screen machines can be tampered in less than 3 secs. The person who writes the software for the computers can put in secret programs called an Easter Egg that can remain hidden. No matter what testing is done, this Easter Egg will never be found. The software person can tell 15 to 30 people the secret code that launches the Easter Egg and the machines start switching votes. When the voting machine is shut down the secret program destroys itself so no one can know it was there. The only solution is to have a paper trail to make sure that what you voted for is printed on paper. This is done in Ohio but few check to see if what they voted for is printed on the paper. Some states like Georgia have no paper trail. So there is no way to verify if the machines are recording the right votes.
8. The people representing the vendors are also representing the Ohio election board. Conflict of interest.
9. The Democrats and Republicans seem to be working together to make voting unverifiable and keeping the process of counting votes a secret that the public should stay out of. The public has a right to election results and the process of counting the votes should be done in the open. For if it is done in the open, the harder it is to tamper with the election results.
10. Ohio has a sleep over rule. Poll workers are to take the voting machines home the Friday before the election and keep them at their home until the election day.

On New Hampshire
1. In some of the counties, memory cards where wiped clean the day after the election. This made verifying impossible.
2. The recount is still in progress but the election board is dragging their feet and delaying as long as possible.
3. The ballots were not placed in a secure location that was locked, rather anyone could walk in the building where the ballots were stored.
4. The people in charge of transporting the ballots had drug convictions.
5. The NH election board paid for home additions for poll workers so they could have the poll station in their homes. Conflict of interest.
6. The seals on the boxes could be taken off and put back on with tearing or leaving a single mark like a post it note.

Quite frankly, this stuff horrifies me.

tombinghamthegreat · 02-07-2008, 07:12 PM

There is something i also fear, yes i am bring up guns again. In Washington, there is a bill being voted on that will take away the 4 and 5 amendment (right to trail, search ect.) rights of any gun owner in the state. These are lawbiding citizens who legally bought their guns w/ a background check. CA is enacting a lot of laws and Hillary/Obama support a ban on all guns. In the debate they call for banning almost all guns but their voting record shows they have backed backdoor gun bans. Not to mention they are against self defense as their voting record shows. The government study groups along with independent long term studys shows that not one gun law has prevented crime and more guns in lawbiding citizens hand reduces crime. So if they are trying to pass more laws that does not stop crime and only effect people who are not criminals, then their intentions are not good. Their interest are to disarm citizens and distory individual rights for the "public good".

If the anti gun politicans do succeed in their plans, we can very well except resistant groups, revolutions from people like me. Ron Paul in todays conference brought the subject up that the right to bear arms is a right for citizens to defend themselves. I can't give up my rights because i fear local criminals will attack since the cops are not there to protect individuals. The only thing stopping them is because we have a bullet with their name on it...well more like 2,000 of them.

cheshirecat · 02-07-2008, 09:49 PM

I would've rather been paranoid. At least that total awareness.