The Golden Compass movie

eLracho · 11-06-2007, 01:22 AM

I was reminded of Snopes.com b/c of Edge's Random Snopes articles and came upon this article: The Golden Compass. (You're probably going to have to read the whole thing to make any sense of this post, which is kind of long, but probably not as long as what follows.)

So, here's my question: How is this movie, or the original book, any different from Christian books trying to persuade people/children that Christianity is "right" and/or that all other religions are wrong/evil?

Quoting the end of the second e-mail: "Pullman says he wants the children to read the books and decide against God and the kingdom of heaven."

And christian books don't do the same to try to persuade children to decide 'towards' God and the kingdom of heaven?

Again, from the second e-mail: "As I skimmed [a synopsis of 'The Golden Compass], I couldn't believe that in a children's book part of the story is about castration and female circumcision."

If you look at many traditional fairy tales, things that are just as bad, if not worse than castration/circumcision, are mentioned all the time. Even the less violent stories we tell have some pretty vile things in them, we just don't realize it...either b/c we've been desensitized, or we've never really thought about it. (If you need any examples, let me know.)

Keep in mind, I'm trying to stay as objective as I can on this issue, regardless of my personal beliefs. I'm not saying that any of Pullman's messages are "right" or "wrong." I am saying that he, or anyone else, has the right to write anti-religious sentiments in children's books if C.S. Lewis was able to publish Christian themes in his books. And if filmmakers could adapt his novels, so, too, can filmmakers adapt any of Pullman's novels.

Furthermore, I don't deny that the filmmakers may have "dumbed down" some of the author's original ideas found in the "His Dark Materials" series. (Though I haven't read the books myself, I read a quote from one of the filmmaker saying that they did so to try to avoid alienating Christian viewers.) I think filmmakers have to do this a lot with their projects if they want to get a film made and consumed by the general public.

I agree with the worries of some that viewing the film will lead children (and adults) to want to read the books, but I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing. I support anything that gets the general public reading again, even if some of the hype surrounding it can be annoying (e.g. Harry Potter mania.)

I think children should be exposed to all sorts of spiritual (and non-spiritual) ideas, and be encouraged to form their own opinions about religion, rather than be pressured into thinking one way or the other because that's what their parents believe. I also think they should be encouraged to read, whether they agree with the main ideas of a body of work or not. I think doing so gives children the ability to, again, form their own ideas about different issues, open their minds to opinions other than their own, and maybe even become tolerant of views they don't happen to agree with.

Whew! That's it for now... I'll be surprised if anyone makes it through all of that.

**Brother of Yeshua** · 11-06-2007, 08:41 AM

Everyone tries to change everyone's opinions all the time.

It's all about your approach.

Are you attempting to educate or indoctrinate?

Chill · 11-06-2007, 09:33 AM

Golden Compass? oh you mean Northern Lights

The book (and series) was very good, and did challenge ideas and brings about new theories for children to think about, such as a spiritual companion? well, your imagination and religion specifically, and also a visible barrier or religion and technology.

I hope to GOD they dont dumb it down, and that they make all the films as they are in the books. I'm assuming itll lose its meaning though and become another fantasy/action film though

**SeaStone** · 11-06-2007, 12:18 PM

I've read The Golden Compass twice, once when I was a child, and again very recently.

I love the book.

He does use many Christian themes, but it is not always to the disadvantage of Christianity itself. I think he does not like the Catholic Church but is ambivalent to Christianity as a whole.

The main character, Lyra, has the destiny to end all destiny. In the beginning of the book there is a mention of how God dictates destiny, one of the major characters mentions how he doesn't like that at all and he would very much like to rule his own destiny. Lyra is the answer to this.

Wow, it's amazing how many anti-religious signs I didn't pick up on. Wow, this guy is amazing, his story is riddled with exulting the fall of woman and with false virtues, such as lying. (Lyra is called Lyra Silvertongue because she has this great ability to lie.)

Oh! There's no actual circumcision in the book, at least not in the sense which we take it. There is the separation of the soul and the body, but that's the only circumcision that's present in the book.

Wow, amazing. I'm going to have to go over this again.

eLracho · 11-06-2007, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother of Yeshua

Everyone tries to change everyone's opinions all the time.

That's a good point. But I think it's a different thing to try to push your own opinion on someone, and if they don't agree, say they're going to hell, or something like that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother of Yeshua

Are you attempting to educate or indoctrinate?

That's a rhetorical question that goes w/ the rest of your post, right? Or were you asking me?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chill

Golden Compass? oh you mean Northern Lights

It's called "The Golden Compass" in N. America, as is the upcoming movie.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chill

I hope to GOD they dont dumb it down... I'm assuming itll lose its meaning though and become another fantasy/action film though

I'm pretty sure they did already, as I read a quote about it in Entertainment Weekly. Writer-director Chris Weitz said:

"I didn't set out to preach. If the film tells the events of the story and depicts the characters in a true light, the themes are inherent."

I'll post a link to the article if I find it online, as I don't really want to type the whole thing out from my hard copy of the magazine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeaStone

He does use many Christian themes, but it is not always to the disadvantage of Christianity itself. I think he does not like the Catholic Church but is ambivalent to Christianity as a whole.

I've heard that he's not necessarily against the Christian church, but maybe organized religion itself? It seems that some Christians are just taking it personally.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeaStone

Oh! There's no actual circumcision in the book, at least not in the sense which we take it.

It sounds like someone (maybe a concerned soccer mom) based this statement on an online synopsis of the book, rather than actually reading it herself.

I plan on reading the trilogy, thanks in part to the stink that has been or will be raised, so thanks Christian protesters!

**SeaStone** · 11-06-2007, 10:10 PM

It's a great series, he's an absolute genius at writing. The books are beautifully written and have so much meaning to them.

**Ristaron** · 11-07-2007, 02:55 AM

For crying out loud, you don't have atheists up in arms about books that pertain to selling pro-Christian values, or lobbying against The Chronicles of Narnia being played in theaters; in fact, we would be condemned for such actions. It is profoundly hypocritical that people are acting so childishly, and all the evidence to support what Pullman is trying to do: separate children from a corrupt establishment like the Catholic church, which fucking sells you forgiveness slips so you can pass "Go" and continue to break the arbitrary rules they decide should dictate your life.

I can understand people like notions that fill holes, but for fuck's sakes, it's gone beyond that. People like their holes, they want to live in their holes, and they get annoyed when people build bridges over their holes, or fill their holes with logic and poetic irony like the use of fiction vs. their fiction.

Crawl out of your holes, people!

**Opunaya** · 11-07-2007, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ristaron

For crying out loud, you don't have atheists up in arms about books that pertain to selling pro-Christian values, or lobbying against The Chronicles of Narnia being played in theaters; in fact, we would be condemned for such actions. It is profoundly hypocritical that people are acting so childishly, and all the evidence to support what Pullman is trying to do: separate children from a corrupt establishment like the Catholic church, which fucking sells you forgiveness slips so you can pass "Go" and continue to break the arbitrary rules they decide should dictate your life.

I can understand people like notions that fill holes, but for fuck's sakes, it's gone beyond that. People like their holes, they want to live in their holes, and they get annoyed when people build bridges over their holes, or fill their holes with logic and poetic irony like the use of fiction vs. their fiction.

Crawl out of your holes, people!

For real.

Why can't people just enjoy a book or movie for being good and not worry about what hidden messages or undertones it might have? That's always bugged me. I'm not Jewish or Black or Catholic, but does that mean I can't enjoy their people, culture, or stories? I believe in God, but does that mean I can't read about Norse mythology? No. People need to quit trying to find little things to bitch about in EVERY SINGLE THING and just enjoy the Goddamn stories!

**Brother of Yeshua** · 11-07-2007, 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eLracho

That's a good point. But I think it's a different thing to try to push your own opinion on someone, and if they don't agree, say they're going to hell, or something like that.

Exactly. That's indoctrination. We should all share our thoughts, opinions, and beliefs, but it's foolishness to think you can agree with everyone all the time or that they will all agree with you on everything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by eLracho

That's a rhetorical question that goes w/ the rest of your post, right? Or were you asking me?

Rhetorical. See the above post. We're on the same page

**Ristaron** · 11-07-2007, 01:38 PM

I know what I am going to do today! (because I don't have anything to do otherwise)
I'm going to go and buy this book, just to spite these fanatics who would have it ripped off the shelf.

Actually, that's a lie, I am gonna buy it because I want to read it and want to spite them. I'm not completely driven by vindictiveness.