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Chad: Follow or Die
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11-09-2007, 10:47 PM
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#1 (permalink) |
 
Posts: 8,941
Age: 22
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God Talks to the Rational Man
Rational Man: God. God: Yes? Rational Man: No, I mean, so you’re telling me you’re a god. God: No, God. There’s only one, and that’s me. Rational Man: I don’t believe you. God: Why? Rational Man: Would you believe me If I said I was Superman? God: Of course not. I know who you are. Rational Man: That may or may not be, but if I say I am Superman, you won’t believe me. I don’t blame you. If you say you are God, you might as well have said you were Superman. God: Ah, well. This certainly isn’t the first time I’ve been doubted. Suppose you want proof? Rational Man: Yes. God: No faith, eh? Rational Man: No. I may have “faith” that there is a country called Australia in the southern hemisphere, and that if I took a plane there I could go to Sydney and see the famous opera house. However, if some guy walks up to me on the beach and says he’s God, well, yes, I want proof. But let’s agree on what “proof” means. God: Fair enough. Rational Man: You have to offer logical, irrefutable proof that you are, indeed, God, creator of the universe, etc. I take it that pretty much sums up what you are claiming? God: That sums it up quite nicely, yes. Rational Man: Ready when you are. God: (points at a seashell - it rises into the air) How’s that? Rational Man: (runs his hand over and under the shell, even grabs hold of it then lets it go) Not bad. But I’m afraid that doesn’t prove anything. God: What? No one can do what I just did. Rational Man: That’s true, if you even did it at all. I saw a guy make the Statue of Liberty disappear once, at least from the viewpoint of the observer. God: So you don’t believe what you can see? Or touch even? Rational Man: I do when doing so helps me get through my day. But, as I said, claiming to be God is a bit bigger and more important. So, all I know right now is that either A: My brain is being told something is happening that isn’t, or B: You are a creature that has powers that are currently outside of my understanding. God: Bingo! You’ve never seen anyone levitate a seashell. And I promise I am not manipulating your brain. Rational Man: Two hundred years ago, no one had seen a television, but the laws of physics that allow televisions to do what they do existed two hundred years ago. I don’t know how you can levitate a seashell, but that does nothing to persuade me that you are the supreme creator of the universe. God: Fine. How about this? (waves his hand, and they are standing in front of the opera house in Sydney, Australia) Rational Man: Impressive. I’m going to leave the whole sensory input manipulation argument behind, just because it would bring an abrupt end to our discussion. (several people gasp when they realize two men materialized out of nowhere) Teleportation. Nice trick. You are indeed powerful, or at least have a device or something I have no knowledge of. God: Device? You know, 2,000 years ago, people were more easy to impress. Rational Man: I’m quite impressed. But again, I’m impressed when I see a Rembrandt painting. I have no idea how he was able to make a gold chain around someone’s neck with just a few small brush strokes. But Rembrandt is not God. God: No, I am. Rational Man: Can’t help you. God: So what if I just caused you to cease to exist? Rational Man: Anyone with a gun or a pointed stick could bring that about. God: I don’t mean kill you, I mean un-make you. Rational Man: And the difference to me would be? God: Your soul would no longer exist. Rational Man: I don’t believe in a soul. I have no evidence. Now, being a rational man, and a logical thinker, I know I cannot prove a negative. I can’t prove there isn’t a soul, but until I have evidence of some kind, I can’t say I believe in them, either. Same for you. God: So I could turn the sky blood red. Rational Man: That would be impressive. You certainly must be the most powerful being I have ever encountered. God: Isn’t that enough? Rational Man: No, sorry. I will have to add “powerful beings” to the list of things I have observed, but someone else may come along, claim they are Thor, and outdo you. God: Thor does not exist. Rational Man: So you say. How would you prove it? God: I can see where this is going. Rational Man: Good. I was kind of getting bored with the whole process. God: So what you are saying is that, because you are this so-called “rational” man, that no amount of proof would convince you that I am God? Rational Man: I’m afraid so. My limitation, I’m afraid. I guess that would be the nature of the whole “faith” thing. God: Yes. Rational Man: Sorry. As I said, I only have “faith” in a limited list of processes, only because I would hate to have to take the time to test and verify gravity before I got out of bed every morning. But, since I can’t prove a negative, I can’t stand here and say with absolute conviction as a rational man, that you are not God. So, if you are, and all that stuff about Heaven and Hell and miracles and such is true, hopefully you’ll take into consideration that you gave me a brain to think with. And if I have to not use what you gave me to be on your good side, I can’t help that. God: Can’t promise you anything. Rational Man: Didn’t think so. Don’t suppose you could teach me that teleport trick? God: Afraid not. Rational Man: Thought so. But can you send me back to the beach? It’s a long walk from Sydney. (poof) The rational man found himself alone again on the beach, with only one set of footprints behind him, which was proof only that he had walked there himself. And that would have to do. |
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11-09-2007, 11:53 PM
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#2 (permalink) | |
Posts: 7,415
Age: 20
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It's pretty amazing that life has evolved how it is. Clearly if it had evolved any other way we would be discussing how amazing it was that life had evolved in that fashion, but the point is that the universe operates on variables we don't entirely understand. That's us, with our 21st-century understanding, which I would put more faith on any day than I would 3,000 year old mythology and its fleeting base on science of the time, which was more speculation on the supernatural than the phenomenal (but very real). To me, a similar story would go like this: God: Hello, allow me to introduce myself. I am God. Person: *looks around* Did anybody hear that? God: I am the Almighty, and I am speaking to you. You will answer me. Person: *sticks little fingers in ears and fishes around for implanted microphones* God: I am not in your head, foolish mortal, any more than I am within everyone and everything. Person: Right... God: I exist in all things. In the water you drink, in the air you breathe, in the-- Person: Um... yeah, does having voices in my head make me crazy, or is it only if I talk to them? God: Behold! Ye of little faith! *person finds himself at a lakeside* Person: What the? Fuck, now I'm hallucinating... God: Silence! I have come to lead you to the promised land! Person: You do realize that every time you make that promise to someone, a war inevitably ensues? God: Only the unworthy perish. Person: You mean the Babylonians, the Assyrians, the Egyptians, the Canaanites, the Gibeonites, the Libnahites, the Eglonites, the Hebronites, the Debirites-- God: That's the Old Testament, be quiet and listen. Person: Sorry... I thought it was the same God... God: Well... I am... Person: Look, I'd love to stay and chat, but I'd really like to return to sanity... God: Then do as I say. Go to your house and sacrifice your eldest son to me. Person: Somehow I don't think that would go over well... God: You would defy me, infidel? Person: Look, I imagine it's been a long time since you last had someone to talk to, but times have changed... human sacrifice is against the law-- God: I am the law. Person: You're a voice in my head. God: I am everything you see, hear, smell, touch, and taste. When you look at the night sky, you see my hand painting white dots for you to gaze at. Person: You mean stars... God: When you look at the morning sun, I am the force that guides it around the Earth until it sets over the other horizon. Person: You mean gravity... and I'm pretty sure the Earth revolves around the Sun... God: When you look at the anatomy of your body, I am the hand that shaped it and made it as it is. Person: Actually, that was over a billion years of evolution. Look, I really don't want to have this conversation right now, the company I work for is in the middle of a really stressful merger and I really can't be distracted by -- God: Have faith in me, and I will guide you. Person: I think I'll stick with rational judgment and the laws of physics... God: You would deny me? Person: Deny a voice in my head? I denied my sister's screaming demands when I was a kid-- God: TASTE MY WRATH! Person: *begins seizuring* --Five hours later-- Doctor: Well, Mr. Smith, we managed to bring your neurochemical levels back down to normal by giving you stress-relieving agents. You show signs of extreme stress and slight dementia... are you experiencing any strange symptoms? Person: Well, I had a lengthy conversation with God right before I passed out... Doctor: Hmm, I'm going to recommend you some therapy and write you a note for medical leave from work. Try to relax, and if symptoms persist, remember that science and medicine is the answer, not God.
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11-10-2007, 12:00 AM
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#3 (permalink) |
 
Posts: 1,683
Age: 24
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"..hopefully you’ll take into consideration that you gave me a brain to think with. And if I have to not use what you gave me to be on your good side, I can’t help that." If I'm interpetting that correctly, I like it.  |
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11-10-2007, 01:29 AM
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#5 (permalink) | ||
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Posts: 7,415
Age: 20
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Quote:
 XD
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11-10-2007, 07:12 AM
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#6 (permalink) |
Posts: 463
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"People spend a lifetime searching for happiness; looking for peace. They chase idle dreams, addictions, religions, even other people, hoping to fill the emptiness that plagues them. The irony is the only place they ever needed to search was within." ~ Ramona L. Anderson "The most wasted of all days is one without laughter" ~E. E. Cummings As the pattern gets more intricate and subtle, being swept along is no longer enough. ~Waking Life |
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11-10-2007, 11:31 AM
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#7 (permalink) | |
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Posts: 7,415
Age: 20
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I hate 'literature'... I'd much rather read a good book. Click here for a Guide To BeastToast! Quote:
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11-11-2007, 07:16 AM
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#9 (permalink) |
Posts: 361
Age: 25
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God appears and proves it's not bound by physical laws, yet the "rational man," imprisoned in his logical construct, fails to see outside his box of reality... The way that Ristaron took this, illustrates the "see what we want to see" aspect of the rational man exactly as the dialog did... As a "rational spiritual man," I admit I may be seeing what I want to see as well, yet my "box of reality" is open to bend and change at any moment... Yet, it seems the "rational man" would need a physicist there with him to do the math and tell him if what he sees is real...
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 "So familiar, and overwhelmingly warm
This one, this form I hold now. Embracing you, this reality here, This one, this form I hold now, so Wide eyed and hopeful. Wide eyed and hopefully wild." -Tool |
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11-11-2007, 06:18 PM
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#10 (permalink) | ||
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Posts: 7,415
Age: 20
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Quote:
1. No matter the "power" of the God in the first case, he couldn't prove himself to be the real God, or the only God, or that his powers were indeed anything but sophisticated tricks. Say a master of illusion is sent back in time and meets a spiritual shaman in the Neolithic era. In order to assert his superiority, the illusionist makes use of his numerous tricks and takes on the mantle of the supernatural. These tricks aren't magic, or even supernatural, they're a combination of psychology and sleight of hand... but to somebody who doesn't understand those concepts it's magic. Say this illusionist has a lighter. He can use it to 'magically' make fire. Say this illusionist recognizes weather patterns are shifting and appropriately predicts that rain will come that day... it's not meteorological science, it's magic. Of course, by this token, it's easy to realize that any being that is capable of such acts is A. highly advanced (and therefore highly unlikely to have developed to such levels before we did in a cosmic setting) and B. probably beyond our comprehension (making discussion of it moot) and C. indifferent to our personal problems (making prayer entirely useless and the divine plan entirely fruitless). Now, according to my version, God is revealed as something that exists only in the head of the observer. We see what we want to see in any setting, this is scientifically proven fact. Therefore: any power he has is only that which we give him. Your brain is therefore responsible for the physical symptoms you experience during "religious experience", and should you curse someone else who believes in the same power they would be weighed down by their own psychological burdens. There was an author a few years ago who developed a new take on the fictional vampire. In his universe, the vampires had complete control over their metabolism, and molecular activity. Thereby they could shape themselves into bats, wolves, human-like figures, or even gaseous states. Such as it was that when the Catholic church cursed them to revile sunlight, they became convinced that it was fatal to them, and would immolate when confronted with it. Of course, along came a vampire who challenged this, and overcame the psychology of his people. He recognized that if you convinced someone with complete control over their body that they would die if touched by sunlight, they will psychologically adhere to that outcome. He went out into the sunlight, caught aflame (doubt), but put out the fire with the knowledge that it was a lie. The human race is verging on such a shift of paradigms, we are shedding the more antiquated notions of personal gods and supernatural beings in favour of impartial, uncorrupted science.
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