Thought Process

Static · #1 (**permalink**) 07-14-2008, 07:14 PM

So for me when I think about something it usually goes through a couple stages, the thought starts with an intention, what am I trying to accomplish with this thought, then comes motivation, what will I gain from thinking this?, after that there's a decision to make, usually this is subconcious and within miliseconds of the beginning of the thought, then I reep the rewards of accept the consequences or what that particular thought earned me.

So now I ask, how do animals', and in particular insects', thought process function? Do they think about everything the do, or do they just do it without what you and I would consider 'thinking', are they on the same level of though process as we are, do they consider the possible outcomes of each action they take or do they take actions without considering outcomes and hope what they chose is best?

I was watching this bee today flying around and I saw him fly into a plastic bag to get to the sugar of some soft drinks inside, and I noticed he couldn't get back out again, he flew in through this little hole and couldn't navigate good enough to fly back out, so I assume that was the end of that bee, I stuck around a good 15 minutes to see if he emerged... but to no avail, I guess he met his fate. So that little interaction made me ask this question, do you think the bee flew into the bag thinking in some unknown bee terms "shit I'ma go get this sugar then fly the fuck back out as quick as I came in no problem!" or do you think he just smelled (if bee's even 'smell' that is...) the sugar and his instincts took over and he flew into the bag without even considering how he was going to get out?

hmm...

krnjason · 07-14-2008, 09:49 PM

well animals to be seem a bit robotic. robotic in the sense of the repetitiveness. For bees, they smell nectar, they go find it (dont really know anatomy of bees so yeah im prolly wrong.) So i would have to go for the latter answer that the sugar took over his instincts.

This question relates to me on a personable level that i know EXACTLy how to get to the destination, but when i need to go back where i started from ie. home or wherever, i have the toughest time figuring out how to get back..haha iono maybe im just an idiot.

Seems to me animals go through : Desires ----> Gets Whats Desired
but dont factor in the miniscule details that are before/after these "set" parameters such as the Get out of the bag step.

IMO, thats why we are humans and they are animals.Just seems they are more "hardwired" into life than humans have free will. does that even make any sense?? haha

Brother of Yeshua · 07-14-2008, 10:45 PM

I'd say the bigger question is just because we perceive animal behavior one way mean they perceive it the same?

The "real world" as we define it is heavily based on the 5 physical senses. These senses provide us with our interpretation of the world around us. Our perception is based off energy of some sort, whether it's light waves or sound waves or our electrons bouncing off some other electrons, being processed by our brain and our brain creates what we perceive as real.

We hear clicks buzzes and grunts, while perhaps they are having whole conversations on the plight of insects and how man must be stopped from squishing them.

I'm being somewhat facetious but you get what I mean.

On the other side of this discussion, I think animals have intelligence, but intelligence that is necessary for purely survival. However, I think, just like human intelligence, there is a spectrum.

Maybe there are bees who are smart enough to know not to fly into a bag of sugar. Maybe this guy assumed since he could get in, he could get out. Maybe he's just not the smartest bee in the swarm. Maybe he was sentenced to death by the queen and this is the way he chose to die. Maybe that bee just has a really sweet tooth.

As far as animals being more repetitive than humans........have you looked at the way people live? Work, eat, sleep, tv, eat, work, sleep, poop, work, sleep, work, sleep. People who come home and drink/smoke/whatever every night. People who habitually do just about anything. We're all creatures of habit.

The miniscule details part is where I agree with you on. It's our capacity for cognitive thought and processing those thoughts that elevates the human mind as more capable than the brain of most animals. That is, if we make use of that capacity.

Judging from most people, I'm not sure there's as big a gap as we'd like to think.

Aphrodisiac · 07-15-2008, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother of Yeshua

As far as animals being more repetitive than humans........have you looked at the way people live? Work, eat, sleep, tv, eat, work, sleep, poop, work, sleep, work, sleep. People who come home and drink/smoke/whatever every night. People who habitually do just about anything. We're all creatures of habit.

I'm quoting this to bring up a point I have thought about. I ofter wonder, if there is by some chance another earth like planet with people on it that have been around as long as us will you find the same things? We like to think we are so different but maybe the stuff we do is natural for humans. You might discover that you would find cars, houses, street, and many other things just like on this world. It may just be a part of human nature as complex as we seem.

I think some animals like insects mostly just work mindlessly. Others I would say are a bit more complex. For example, you can observe just by looking a certain animals that they dream. They go into REM and sometimes even act out in their sleep. To me that would suggest they are "thinking" about something. Most likely just in images but that's still something. They can't think with words like we do though because there is no language. Who knows, they could be dreaming about words in a way. Perhaps a pet is dreaming about its life in the house and it's owner talks to it. I'm going to compare it to a child that can't talk because it's the only example I can think of. A baby is not thinking with words yet but it does have a thought process. A baby will wonder about things but until it learns language can't communicate the same way we do. I think it's possible that certain animals in some way question things or have complex thoughts they can't communicate.

**Opunaya** · 07-16-2008, 04:29 AM

I think animals thought process is without the question "Why?". As far as we know, they never ask themselves "Why am I doing this?" They never question their world, they merely accept it and try to live as best as they can.

Brother of Yeshua · 07-16-2008, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Opunaya

I think animals thought process is without the question "Why?". As far as we know, they never ask themselves "Why am I doing this?" They never question their world, they merely accept it and try to live as best as they can.

Agreed.

And again, judging from most people, it's hard to see the difference.

Germanboi · 07-17-2008, 12:56 AM

I think it all has to do with the genes of the creature in question. The bee was purely on instinct to get the food for the survival of the colony. Other more complex beings, such as the larger mammals and I think even a lot of birds can decipher between thoughts. You can always say a mouse can, but in order for it to do things it learns a pattern slowly, but cannot think, "I couldnt get the food this one way, so I will try this different way." I guess once again it depends on the complexity of the animal...

everyone's favo · 07-17-2008, 04:04 AM

But even if we can decipher thoughts, we stil habitually choose the same decision almost everytime. For another example of human behavior - just look at the way people sit in a classroom. You will almost always sit in the same seat, and the only time you will not sit in the same seat is when someone else is already sitting there. At that point, your not comfortable. This is outside your realm of saftey.

I assume the same is true for animals, the only difference is they do not think about these habits. It is only natural for an animal to do what it habitually knows is right.

**Opunaya** · 07-17-2008, 04:21 AM

Hence the term that we're "creatures of habit". Also, the teachers sometimes assign seats =P

Brother of Yeshua · 07-18-2008, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by everyone's favo

But even if we can decipher thoughts, we stil habitually choose the same decision almost everytime. For another example of human behavior - just look at the way people sit in a classroom. You will almost always sit in the same seat, and the only time you will not sit in the same seat is when someone else is already sitting there. At that point, your not comfortable. This is outside your realm of saftey.

I assume the same is true for animals, the only difference is they do not think about these habits. It is only natural for an animal to do what it habitually knows is right.

So again, asking the question of why on a more complex level.

Animals do ask why to some degree I think.

I keep my cats from doing things I don't want them to do with a spray bottle. Granted this is a bit like stimulus response, but at the same time, my one male cat is very stubborn and I usually have to spray him about 5 times before he'll stop. Then it's less each subsequent time.

I feel like at first he has to be thinking "What the fuck? Why is this asshole spraying me?"

Maybe I just give my cats too much credit.