Religion is not the answer. - Page 2

07-10-2008, 10:45 AM

As the years have gone by, I have been confused, scared, angry, sometimes even suicidal at the hypocrisies and hatred surrounding the Christian faith. Like many teenagers, I started looking a different religions, trying to find something that fits, but I never really found anything that was "just right" for me.
Eventually I turned to Atheism, because I just couldn't see how, if there is a just and loving God, all the horrible atrocious things that happened in the world (and to me) could have gone unpunished. But in my heart it wasn't true, because I could still feel something there. Something unexplained, but influential, if ever so slightly.
In college, everything started to change. I admit, there was a lot of experimental drug use, but I wasn't aware of just exactly what was happening to me at the time. I was opening a new spiritual door, one that still stands open today. With the use of experimental substances, meditation, and all around questioning and contemplation, I was following the same methods used in many different cultures around the world, for thousands of years, to increase my awareness and understanding of an encompassing Presence in the Universe. Through these methods I have come to know and (partially) understand what it is that connects us all at a spiritual and emotional level.
Let's take a moment to look at this phrase: "Thou shalt not use God's name in vain."
What do you suppose that means? There is the dogmatic answer of course, that one should not use God's name in a derogatory manner, saying things such as "goddamn" and "jesus christ" to express frustration and anger. However, I don't find that to be the right answer in the least. What I believe, is that the name of God itself is not to be uttered flippantly, and without just cause, otherwise it loses the meaning and power behind it. It becomes just another word. Herein lies the reason I have no name for what I've found to be present in all of us. But to avoid being too vague, I will stick with the over-used "god". Maybe in the future I'll find a better word.
Let us also look at the phrase, "God helps those who help themselves." I believe this holds the key to my own questioning (and no doubt yours) of a just and loving god, and how things can go so wrong in the world. When I was a child I used to pray; pray that God wouldn't let my parents beat me again, pray that they would show me some love, pray that I wouldn't feel like a mistake. It never happened, so one day I stopped praying. It took me until a few years ago to understand why. First of all, if my parents HADN'T beaten me and abused me, I wouldn't be the kind of person I am today. I would be a entirely different, most likely the kind of person that I don't like. But mainly, God didn't swoop in and answer all my prayers because that's not what God does. It's not a human-like figure sitting on a cloud watching you. If anything it's more of a wild animal, one that contains our entire existence inside of It. (And as a side note, we contain Its entire existence within ourselves

I think the Beatles said it best with "Try to realize it's all within yourself No-one else can make you change. And to see you're really only very small, and life flows on within you and without you.")
So God is within us all, we are within it...I am he, as you are he, and you are me, and we are all together (GOO GOO G’JOOB Josh). Under my physical body, I'm the same as anything else around me. Everything is everything. Really that makes us quite limitless doesn't it? So why restrain all of that creativity and potential with a set of rules to live by, created by someone OTHER than yourself?

--------------- Added 10 Jul 2008 at 11:12 am ---------------

YouTube - The Beatles - Tomorrow Never Knows

07-10-2008, 12:32 PM

That's really all you should be doing anyway.
Live for the moment, forget the past, and don't worry so much about the future.

bloodiedrubies · 07-11-2008, 10:44 AM

I get where your coming from though. Its mind blowing to think that we are the only thing stopping us from becoming everything we dream. the fact that there is something out there bigger than ourselves is a concept I can agree with, I've believed that for a while, but the term god seems empty and shallow at best, at worst entirely hypocritical and useless. I'm quite sure there is something beyond us, bigger and more powerful, but I've yet to define what I believe "it" is.

07-11-2008, 12:11 PM

It's Everything.

WARmeetWORLD · 08-06-2008, 01:29 AM

Let us find a path devoid of God? Let us all become, strive, and find answer without these spoken, and spatted words from something higher? Better?

Hmm. Do so, become the ubermensch, yes? Religion, at least in the sense of what Christianity was, and has become, is not an answer.

As they have been, and as they are, the men of priesthood are higher, for science, senses, understanding...are all beneath them. God has lost his meaning, the Yahweh of yesterday. The God of Judaism, isn't he the God of Christianity? No, all the focus has been taken and brought forth on Jesus, the new God of the New Testament. What happened to him? Why such a change of heart and self? This being of infinite wisdom, power, etc. suddenly lost it all, and has now become limited.

Though, to say "Religion is not the answer" wouldn't justify the topic. "Christianity is not the answer" more so fits. People say Buddhism is of religion, and Taoism...though, then are you putting them on the same line of Christianity?

"God is dead." said Nietzsche. He is an interesting read, for the contemplative person who thinks about these sorts. "Thus Spake Zarathustra", "Twilight of the Idols", and hell, in this case, especially "The Anti-Christ".

Quote:

Under Christianity neither morality nor religion has any point of contact with actuality. It offers purely imaginary causes (“God,” “soul,” “ego,” “spirit,” “free will”—or even “unfree”), and purely imaginary effects (“sin,” “salvation,” “grace,” “punishment,” “forgiveness of sins”). Intercourse between imaginary beings (“God,” “spirits,” “souls”); an imaginary natural history (anthropocentric; a total denial of the concept of natural causes); an imaginary psychology (misunderstandings of self, misinterpretations of agreeable or disagreeable general feelings—for example, of the states of the nervus sympathicus with the help of the sign-language of religio-ethical balderdash—, “repentance,” “pangs of conscience,” “temptation by the devil,” “the presence of God”); an imaginary teleology (the “kingdom of God,” “the last judgment,” “eternal life”).—This purely fictitious world, greatly to its disadvantage, is to be differentiated from the world of dreams; the latter at least reflects reality, whereas the former falsifies it, cheapens it and denies it. Once the concept of “nature” had been opposed to the concept of “God,” the word “natural” necessarily took on the meaning of “abominable”—the whole of that fictitious world has its sources in hatred of the natural (—the real!—), and is no more than evidence of a profound uneasiness in the presence of reality.... This explains everything. Who alone has any reason for living his way out of reality? The man who suffers under it. But to suffer from reality one must be a botched reality.... The preponderance of pains over pleasures is the cause of this fictitious morality and religion: but such a preponderance also supplies the formula for decadence

- Nietzsche, "The Anti-Christ", Section 15

Moral degeneration, or more so, manipulation through way of mass delusion. My opinion was traveling in this direction, but Nietzsche is the man who wrote what should be read by those that question so, as he words your questions, and affirms such reason to question. [sorry for long post, can't sleep, and reading "The Anti-Christ" lately, thinking thinking thought think]

Germanboi · 08-06-2008, 02:01 AM

Now if I translate the meaning of that word, "ubermensch" uber means about or over...and mensch or menscheit means mankind....so the meaning of man?!?! Anyway,

Girl that is an awesome philosophy on life and the greater being behind it all. Reminds me a little bit about the native american religion I have been engrossing myself in as of late. Thank you for this insight into your thoughts and being...it is an uplifting ideology and is very close to what I personally believe in...at least in many ways...there are additions to the way I think of "god" and its interactions with man..but I will not go into them right now. Thanks again!

**Ristaron** · 08-06-2008, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Under Christianity neither morality nor religion has any point of contact with actuality. It offers purely imaginary causes (“God,” “soul,” “ego,” “spirit,” “free will”—or even “unfree”), and purely imaginary effects (“sin,” “salvation,” “grace,” “punishment,” “forgiveness of sins”). Intercourse between imaginary beings (“God,” “spirits,” “souls”); an imaginary natural history (anthropocentric; a total denial of the concept of natural causes); an imaginary psychology (misunderstandings of self, misinterpretations of agreeable or disagreeable general feelings—for example, of the states of the nervus sympathicus with the help of the sign-language of religio-ethical balderdash—, “repentance,” “pangs of conscience,” “temptation by the devil,” “the presence of God”); an imaginary teleology (the “kingdom of God,” “the last judgment,” “eternal life”).—This purely fictitious world, greatly to its disadvantage, is to be differentiated from the world of dreams; the latter at least reflects reality, whereas the former falsifies it, cheapens it and denies it. Once the concept of “nature” had been opposed to the concept of “God,” the word “natural” necessarily took on the meaning of “abominable”—the whole of that fictitious world has its sources in hatred of the natural (—the real!—), and is no more than evidence of a profound uneasiness in the presence of reality.... This explains everything. Who alone has any reason for living his way out of reality? The man who suffers under it. But to suffer from reality one must be a botched reality.... The preponderance of pains over pleasures is the cause of this fictitious morality and religion: but such a preponderance also supplies the formula for decadence.

And this is why I love Nietzsche. Absolute genius.

In spite of what the self-righteous, deluded pseudo-Christian "Intelligent Design" proponents believe, religion and science are mutually exclusive. Religion is taken on faith, where no evidence is presented, whereas science demands proof. The so called "blend" they achieve is nothing but spin on facts to suit theories that invoke that which science holds impossible. The only reason it holds up as unable to be disproven is because it presents no basis in reality, just like it's mother religion, Christianity.

Where science is based on reality, religion is based on conjecture. Ancient conjecture, at that. Looking back through history you can see how the Christian faith evolved from other religions of the time, including the Egyptian mythos. These religions have been thrown down as heretical throughout history, but their core qualities have passed on through cultural diffusion. Religion is the apogee of memes, the ultimate fraud of human understanding. More horrifying than that, the vast majority of crimes in human history have been in the name of religion. Crusades, jihads, Reconquista, French Wars of Religion, not to mention the ubiquitous tribal warfare that extends far back before we had writing -- all rooted in religion.

It is the fancy of men with certain values to glorify them into a religious movement and claim divine inspiration. Too many people see religion is begetting morality, but in reality it is morality that begets religion. Societies develop according to their environment, and form rules to live by for mutual benefit. Then, when someone comes along and questions why, it is far easier to claim that an advanced power willed it so than to explain economics and social theory. Religion is the cop-out answer that has spun way out of control.

God isn't the way. Religion isn't the answer. Find it in yourself to have the strength to live by society's rules. Don't seek inspiration from detached abstracts and cheat yourself of the credit you deserve.

Animal-Mother · 09-04-2008, 08:02 AM

Interesting stuff Girl,but how would you explain those who feel nothing inside us? What about all the hate inside me we talked about? Im sure there is some sort of "god" or force of nature we return to when die and fade away but I just dont know why it would let us suffer so much (even if it cant change things),I think whatever exists within us is evil,looking at the world today It would be easy to see evil within our hearts and minds.I dont think "God" is the final factor in anything,therefore it is pointless to pray or even realize its presence.We as humans are the final factor,WE make the choices that change the world...not "god".As humans we are bound by nature, to preserve our own life before others (excluding maturnal instincts).Its thought of as evil to save your life before others are be greedy and pridefull but isnt that also what makes us human?Maybe "god" really wants us to be "evil" or maybe he gave us those thoughs and feelings as a test? The possibilities are endless but the way I see it,I am god.I decide what happens in my life and I will do what I please.

09-04-2008, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WARmeetWORLD

Though, to say "Religion is not the answer" wouldn't justify the topic. "Christianity is not the answer" more so fits. People say Buddhism is of religion, and Taoism...though, then are you putting them on the same line of Christianity?

I am, actually. I don't believe ANY religion is the answer to spiritual enlightenment. Ultimately, that is something only you can discover in meditation and heightened awareness.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Animal-Mother

Interesting stuff Girl,but how would you explain those who feel nothing inside us? What about all the hate inside me we talked about? Im sure there is some sort of "god" or force of nature we return to when die and fade away but I just dont know why it would let us suffer so much (even if it cant change things),I think whatever exists within us is evil,looking at the world today It would be easy to see evil within our hearts and minds.I dont think "God" is the final factor in anything,therefore it is pointless to pray or even realize its presence.We as humans are the final factor,WE make the choices that change the world...not "god".As humans we are bound by nature, to preserve our own life before others (excluding maturnal instincts).Its thought of as evil to save your life before others are be greedy and pridefull but isnt that also what makes us human?Maybe "god" really wants us to be "evil" or maybe he gave us those thoughts and feelings as a test? The possibilities are endless but the way I see it,I am god.I decide what happens in my life and I will do what I please.

Emotions are only a reaction based on your perceptions. You hate because you were hurt, and it is up to you to change that, if you want to. I don't believe in a Heaven or Hell scenario, I believe those are states we bring ourselves to while we are still living. When we die, I believe our energy joins a collective consciousness. There is no judgment, no purgatory or anything like that. I'm not even sure if I believe in the term "evil" anymore. It's all just reactions, equal and opposite reactions.
You are correct though, you are god. And I am god, and so is Ristaron, though I doubt he is content with that statement. I do believe in science, in evolution, and other things of that nature, but I don't believe that I can only choose one or the other. I don't believe evolution has anything to do with the possibility of a "god", because I don't believe god is THAT involved in what happens here. I am my brother's keeper, meaning I am responsible for the planet and its inhabitants- and so is everyone else. That is our free will I suppose. "God" comes into play in our personal challenges- whether or not we can be responsible for our own actions, how we handle the traumatic events in our lives, essentially it helps us become the kind of people we wish to be. "God" helps us find true joy, which can only be found by first loving and accepting yourself, and then others.

**Brother of Yeshua** · 09-04-2008, 08:59 PM

I read a really interesting book called "The Physics of Immortality" that relates to the idea of Science and Religion crossing paths.

It's incredibly hard to read, and I won't lie, some chunks of it were over my head, but anyone of any thought process that is at least interested in the concept of religion and science, where they meet, or if they meet at all should read it. Or at least try to read it. I forget the author, but do a google search or amazon search.

I'm not asking anyone to change their mind, whatever their mind may be, but it's a very intelligent and well written book. I'd recommend it.

--------------- Added 04 Sep 2008 at 08:59 pm ---------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Girl

I am, actually. I don't believe ANY religion is the answer to spiritual enlightenment. Ultimately, that is something only you can discover in meditation and heightened awareness.

Emotions are only a reaction based on your perceptions. You hate because you were hurt, and it is up to you to change that, if you want to. I don't believe in a Heaven or Hell scenario, I believe those are states we bring ourselves to while we are still living. When we die, I believe our energy joins a collective consciousness. There is no judgment, no purgatory or anything like that. I'm not even sure if I believe in the term "evil" anymore. It's all just reactions, equal and opposite reactions.
You are correct though, you are god. And I am god, and so is Ristaron, though I doubt he is content with that statement. I do believe in science, in evolution, and other things of that nature, but I don't believe that I can only choose one or the other. I don't believe evolution has anything to do with the possibility of a "god", because I don't believe god is THAT involved in what happens here. I am my brother's keeper, meaning I am responsible for the planet and its inhabitants- and so is everyone else. That is our free will I suppose. "God" comes into play in our personal challenges- whether or not we can be responsible for our own actions, how we handle the traumatic events in our lives, essentially it helps us become the kind of people we wish to be. "God" helps us find true joy, which can only be found by first loving and accepting yourself, and then others.

Word. I love when you talk about this stuff.

Animal-Mother · 09-05-2008, 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Girl

I am, actually. I don't believe ANY religion is the answer to spiritual enlightenment. Ultimately, that is something only you can discover in meditation and heightened awareness.

Emotions are only a reaction based on your perceptions. You hate because you were hurt, and it is up to you to change that, if you want to. I don't believe in a Heaven or Hell scenario, I believe those are states we bring ourselves to while we are still living. When we die, I believe our energy joins a collective consciousness. There is no judgment, no purgatory or anything like that. I'm not even sure if I believe in the term "evil" anymore. It's all just reactions, equal and opposite reactions.
You are correct though, you are god. And I am god, and so is Ristaron, though I doubt he is content with that statement. I do believe in science, in evolution, and other things of that nature, but I don't believe that I can only choose one or the other. I don't believe evolution has anything to do with the possibility of a "god", because I don't believe god is THAT involved in what happens here. I am my brother's keeper, meaning I am responsible for the planet and its inhabitants- and so is everyone else. That is our free will I suppose. "God" comes into play in our personal challenges- whether or not we can be responsible for our own actions, how we handle the traumatic events in our lives, essentially it helps us become the kind of people we wish to be. "God" helps us find true joy, which can only be found by first loving and accepting yourself, and then others.

*slow applause*.Its almost like you give me a new view on life every time i ask you something.