Destiny or Free Will?

#1 (**permalink**) 12-10-2007, 06:48 PM

Hello, dearies.

My new question unfolded to you: Destiny or free will?

Free will would be believing that the choices you make effect your future... Destiny being that everything is pre-destined and things will end up where they need to be regardless of your decisions.

What do you think?

**Opunaya** · 12-10-2007, 06:52 PM

I think there's already a thread on this...

Stossel · 12-10-2007, 06:55 PM

I think there's already a bunch of threads on this.

**Opunaya** · 12-10-2007, 06:58 PM

Post a couple of links, and I'll close this one down then.

**Ristaron** · 12-11-2007, 12:00 AM

We have discussions for Free Will, and we have discussions about the Divine Plan/Destiny, and we have 234782938472934 posts in a billion threads all about the controversy between. We don't however, have a thread devoted to the argument of the two, we have threads regarding discussion of one element. It isn't, however, a "new" idea.

I'm allowing it to remain open.

I'll say one thing first: we cannot draw conclusions from [X Science-Fiction Novel], as the author of any story writes it with the intention of proposing his own view. There are, however, classic scenarios that can be drawn from classic novels/movies for the sake of shortening descriptions:

The Oedipus Complex
I'm not talking about where you want to seduce your mother, I'm talking about the pattern Oedipus described, where your actions orchestrate a pre-ordained fate. In Oedipus The King, Oedipus was told a prophecy that he would kill his father and marry his mother. Not knowing that he was adopted, he fled his adopted home to get as far as he could. He came across a carriage on the road that blocked his path and spurred him to kill the guards and the man inside, and then went on to come upon Thebes, which was beset by a creature who proposed a riddle; should it be answered the creature would leave. Oedipus successfully answered it, and the city made him King, thereby he married the reigning queen. Years later, he discovered that the man on the road had been the woman's former husband, and they were his parents.

The Terminator Complex
The future is set in stone, and the actions of the people in the past have no bearing on it save perhaps to delay it. Sarah Connor successfully defeated two attempts on her son's life so as to stop Judgment Day from arriving, but in the end it still occurred and everyone played the role necessary to be played. This complex is also paralleled by The Time Machine, where Alexander Hartdegen, despite his numerous trips back in time to save his fiancee, cannot successfully save her life.

The Dr. Who Complex
Dr. Who is famous for its dealings with time travel. To quote the doctor himself, "people think time is a straight line, it's not. Time is really a complicated kind of woobly wobbly ... thing". In layman's terms, this infers that future outcomes can be prevented, even if they influence the change that prevents them. This is possible because the present is the definitive frame of everything. This makes the present an independent variable from the past and future, which are constantly changing. This complex provides the strongest opportunity for Free Will.

The Enterprise Complex
Star Trek: Enterprise was infamous for its constant use of temporal displacement. In the series, Agent Daniels makes frequent appearance to steer Captain Archer in the direction that would accomplish Daniels' version of history, and always with the threat that if Archer didn't cooperate, great catastrophe would result. This complex differs from the Dr. Who Complex in that it implies that the present requires the future to guide it to a specific outcome, and otherwise a possible future won't come about. It also provides a strong opportunity for Free Will.

The Stand Alone Complex
In the postcyberpunk anime series The Ghost In The Shell, Section 9 is often confronted with an example of a Stand Alone Complex. A Stand Alone Complex occurs when a group interpret an event as a deliberate action and seek to emulate it for their own ends, regardless of evidence for or against such a conclusion. A Stand Alone Complex is characterized (that is to say, distinguished from other events) by the efforts of the individuals coming together seemingly as if it were predetermined. Yet, in each individual case, they are acting under their own accord. This merges the concepts of The Oedipus Complex and the Terminator Complex in a unique fashion.

I don't have any sources for these, except my own interpretation and rationalization of the examples I listed in each Complex description. I personally believe we shape our own futures by our direct actions and how our actions indirectly affect the situation through influencing others. I believe that every action has an equal and opposing reaction, and that the result is often an inverted example of the origin. I know that Stand Alone Complexes have likely existed in the past, but only because the goals of all the parties employ the same means and are thereby greatly limited in applicability so that it's not surprising that their efforts met up. Also, the parties would be on the same "wavelength" which (according to numerous theories) would make them subconsciously attracted to each other. They still operate by free will, however.

Again, my interpretation.

**Opunaya** · 12-11-2007, 04:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ristaron

We have discussions for Free Will, and we have discussions about the Divine Plan/Destiny, and we have 234782938472934 posts in a billion threads all about the controversy between. We don't however, have a thread devoted to the argument of the two, we have threads regarding discussion of one element. It isn't, however, a "new" idea.

I'm allowing it to remain open.

Aside from reading the titles, I tend to keep out of this section, so, my bad on it, this topic just sounded familiar ^_^;

That's probably because you've seen it discussed quite a bit in other threads. In an off-topic sense, I'll add.
-Rist