Born bi?

Aphrodisiac · #1 (**permalink**) 08-29-2008, 07:46 PM

I found a really old topic where Ristaron had mentioned some doctors believe we are all born bi and different factors determine our how we turn out. I didn't want to resurrect that old topic just to add to that single post so I want to make a entire topic for it.

I have thought that very same thing for various reasons I am about to get to and am curious to know what others think. I know most people will probably disagree with this and it does not surprise me but the topic is still debatable either way.

Now to get to why I think this is so.

As we grow up we are trained to adapt into what we are most familiar with. Some of us go against what we are taught and eventually think for ourselves but in a matter such as this it's different. We are taught from a very young age that it's supposed to be male and female. Religion may influence this a bit but not as much as nature. We grow up seeing males and females together and as our mind develops it's more likely for a person to be straight. This is due to many reasons. When I was old enough to understand what "gay" was I can remember making fun of it with the other kids in middle and high school even though I was bi because "there was something wrong with it." In a way I think I did it because I wanted to be convinced I wasn't thanks to being in that atmosphere. I don't know if things are the same with kids in public school but keep in mind I was going to christian school. No matter what I had to deny it. Yes, that's messed up but for me it was a matter of survival while in school.

Anyway, the point behind naming my personal experiences was to get at why I think life experiences can make peoples sexual preference different. I will start off with why I think I turned out bi and then give a few examples of how I think things can make people turn out gay. Mind you it's more than possible that the factors for many can't even be predicted or figured out. Thats why I am saying these are simply examples. When I was still in early elementary school and a few years beyond me and two of my guy friends decided to "sexually experiment" with each other. Now I may be wrong but I don't think most guys a really young age think of doing it or do it. Even when I was old enough to get what gay is I remember one of my friends saying "this is fine, we aren't gay it's just pleasure". Point being, I think many people before they fully develop are taught about straight relationships. Once they fully develop and understand things it's most likely any possibility of same sex attraction is gone. In the example of my experience I learned to get turned on by another male at a young age before even having a real interest in sex. As a result while I grew up I was capable of being sexually attracted to the same sex while most male adults would not even be able to get their dick hard for another male. The funny thing is though neither of them turned out bi or gay. So I assume more factors in all our lives played out to the end result when we finally were at whatever stage in life decides sexual preferance.

Now an example of why someone might turn out completely gay. If someone grows up with and abusive worthless mother they learn to hate women. This is not a 100% chance they will never be attracted to them but females are more likely to be ugly to them from the beginning. Though this hate they can not be attracted to a female when they fully develop at all.

Like I said though these are just some examples and the reasons can be far more complex. So don't take it as me saying if you turn out gay you had been abused or something because that's far from what I think. It was just an example.

Animal-Mother · 08-30-2008, 05:49 AM

This makes sense.I do see where you come from with being born bi,its all about the up-bringing.Maybe sexual attraction is all based off of personality and not pre-programed.I had an extremely neglective mother (Yes I hate females) and no father so maybe that why I dont like either,its seems to make sense.I bet if people werent brought up to think homosexuality was wrong we would have alot more gays....I think I prefer being around gay men than females or straight males.They arent afraid of being in depth or showing emotions.

Aphrodisiac · 08-30-2008, 11:26 AM

Interesting, you brought up a good point about your experience and not being attracted to either gender. That's another good example of how someone could turn out due to life experience. Most of the males I end up getting along with are gay also. For some reason straight males often get on my nerves. There are some I can handle but it's just something about how many of them act.

**Ristaron** · 08-30-2008, 02:43 PM

You should read Freud.

I'm of the opinion that there is a genetic component, as well as a social component. It's not strictly nature vs. nurture, but rather how the two interact. In another world I might have turned out bi, but in this one I turned out gay. I base this opinion on the conclusions of several medical studies involving gay brothers and twins, in which there was a strong correlation toward genetic predisposition, but not enough to suggest that it was the sole factor. My opinion is also based on evidence of homosexual behaviour in other mammals, such as dolphins and penguins, suggesting that there is a strong environmental factor.

When we're young, we're not bi, gay, or straight, we're undecided. We haven't developed our sexual instincts yet. It is my belief that in an isolated community of young people who have not been educated on straight/gay relationships (or the religious "immorality" of it) will produce more evenly distributed couples than we see even in our increasingly disestablishmentarianistic society.

**Brother of Yeshua** · 08-30-2008, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ristaron

You should read Freud.

I'm of the opinion that there is a genetic component, as well as a social component. It's not strictly nature vs. nurture, but rather how the two interact. In another world I might have turned out bi, but in this one I turned out gay. I base this opinion on the conclusions of several medical studies involving gay brothers and twins, in which there was a strong correlation toward genetic predisposition, but not enough to suggest that it was the sole factor. My opinion is also based on evidence of homosexual behaviour in other mammals, such as dolphins and penguins, suggesting that there is a strong environmental factor.

When we're young, we're not bi, gay, or straight, we're undecided. We haven't developed our sexual instincts yet. It is my belief that in an isolated community of young people who have not been educated on straight/gay relationships (or the religious "immorality" of it) will produce more evenly distributed couples than we see even in our increasingly disestablishmentarianistic society.

Nice word usage, how often do you get to pull that one out (other than saying "the longest word in the english language is....").

I find it interesting you didn't consider the fact you could of turned out straight.

Not to detract from the biological end, but the interesting thing to me is when looking at homosexual males, how often that they lack a solid male role model growing up in life and how frequently that plays a role in shaping a person's sexual desires. On the other side, homosexual females tend to have had poor interactions with males in their life, which seems to play a role in the nurture end of things in their affinity for women.

This is by far not always the case, but I know I read a few studies on this that showed some correlation between these things. I will see if I can find anything about this.

**Ristaron** · 08-30-2008, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother of Yeshua

Nice word usage, how often do you get to pull that one out (other than saying "the longest word in the english language is....").

I find it interesting you didn't consider the fact you could of turned out straight.

Not to detract from the biological end, but the interesting thing to me is when looking at homosexual males, how often that they lack a solid male role model growing up in life and how frequently that plays a role in shaping a person's sexual desires. On the other side, homosexual females tend to have had poor interactions with males in their life, which seems to play a role in the nurture end of things in their affinity for women.

This is by far not always the case, but I know I read a few studies on this that showed some correlation between these things. I will see if I can find anything about this.

Actually, most people will say "antidisestablishmentarianism" when asked what the longest word in the English language is. Unfortunately they aren't aware of two things:
1. It's not the longest word in the English language.
2. Its meaning.

There are many much longer words in the English language, including, ironically, a word to describe the fear of long words (hippopotomonstrosesquipedalianism). Most of the exceedingly long words are actually the names of chemicals (currently the placeholder at 189,819 letters) or medical conditions. Most are formed by agglutinative construction (adding prefixes and suffixes)... though, in the case of the chemical, it's a compound word of every chemical element (C132983H211861N36149O40883S693 being the formula).

But I digress...

The reason I didn't allow for the possibility of my being straight was because, exceptional cases notwithstanding, I believe I fall in the "gay" side of the spectrum (gay-bi-straight). I look at it as a more comprehensive form of Kinsey's Scale, with limited "sliding" possible over the course of a lifetime.

That's my opinion, however, without sufficient evidence to present it as a theory. The fact of the matter is that I don't understand how orientation works, I just know that I like penis, and there's almost certainly a biological root to it. I also know that my father and my mother were both strong forces in my life. Freud wouldn't succeed in finding any deep-seated daddy issues, or jealousy toward my mother, or pent up anger at creepy strangers who touched my "naughty place".

ochaos007 · 08-31-2008, 08:34 AM

hmm this is probably true..
im bisexual.
a lot of people think its because i was raised in a house full of women and i never had a dad. i don't think it turned me that way, but it definitely played a part. i don't blame anyone on anything. And I hate when people say "You're just confused, Not bi" or "Bisexual is just a cover-up, Pick a side"... No im BISEXUAL not confused.

**Brother of Yeshua** · 08-31-2008, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ristaron

The reason I didn't allow for the possibility of my being straight was because, exceptional cases notwithstanding, I believe I fall in the "gay" side of the spectrum (gay-bi-straight). I look at it as a more comprehensive form of Kinsey's Scale, with limited "sliding" possible over the course of a lifetime.

That's my opinion, however, without sufficient evidence to present it as a theory. The fact of the matter is that I don't understand how orientation works, I just know that I like penis, and there's almost certainly a biological root to it. I also know that my father and my mother were both strong forces in my life. Freud wouldn't succeed in finding any deep-seated daddy issues, or jealousy toward my mother, or pent up anger at creepy strangers who touched my "naughty place".

Very fair explanation, it was just an observation.

I don't think anyone understands how it works, or we wouldn't be having these discussions.

Those aren't the only reasons that I think play a role in someone's orientation by any means, just commonalities. I think it's rather simplistic to assume that nature and nurture are ever exclusive in these types of issues, or that there is only one system of nurturing that causes an outcome.

**Ristaron** · 09-01-2008, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ochaos007

hmm this is probably true..
im bisexual.
a lot of people think its because i was raised in a house full of women and i never had a dad. i don't think it turned me that way, but it definitely played a part. i don't blame anyone on anything. And I hate when people say "You're just confused, Not bi" or "Bisexual is just a cover-up, Pick a side"... No im BISEXUAL not confused.

I agree wholeheartedly. If you can have people who like chocolate and vanilla, why can't you have people who like vaginas and penises?

Though, Phoebe's song was hilarious...
Sometimes men love women.
Sometimes men love men.
And then there are bisexuals,
Though some just say they're kidding themselves...